Hand gun recently ?
- Thread starter nauman
- Start date
Do you know anyone who has been granted one in the UK?
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
Had a discussion with L&B about this.
Even though I had good reason, they insisted if I pursued it , it would take longer to process than I had left on my FAC and they wouldn't issue a sec7. (veiled threat to remove what I had)
They also spoke to a shoot lease holder (who knows nothing about stalking ) and stated his opinion was that you should be able to kill a deer with the first shot so why would you need to dispatch it.!!
The conversation from their side became utterly ridiculous regardless of them being told they were ignoring the HO guidelines and were pretty out of order.
I got by without it rather than have to carry on dealing with idiots.
Even though I had good reason, they insisted if I pursued it , it would take longer to process than I had left on my FAC and they wouldn't issue a sec7. (veiled threat to remove what I had)
They also spoke to a shoot lease holder (who knows nothing about stalking ) and stated his opinion was that you should be able to kill a deer with the first shot so why would you need to dispatch it.!!
The conversation from their side became utterly ridiculous regardless of them being told they were ignoring the HO guidelines and were pretty out of order.
I got by without it rather than have to carry on dealing with idiots.
I can only see the demand for HD pistols increasing:
a. Increased use of less than perfectly placed neck shots as too much focus on maximum carcass revenue.
b. Increased use of copper.
K
a. Increased use of less than perfectly placed neck shots as too much focus on maximum carcass revenue.
b. Increased use of copper.
K
I have historically been quite dubious of the requirement of a deer stalker to carry a humane dispatch pistol. However, Last year I shot a deer on a piece of steep hill ground bordered by woodland and when I approached the deer it was apparent that it was still alive. I took a second shot at a range of about 2-3 metres and heard the bullet ricochet off a subsurface rock after passing through the head. Now I cannot tell how close the bullet was to me or the direction that it went in but I can confirm that it was a very unpleasant experience indeed, with the realisation that I could have inadvertently shot myself or someone else in the vicinity subsequently sinking in. Since that time I have been considering what the safest method is to deal with this eventuality and have come to the conclusion that a pistol is the best option. This may be akin to buying a fire blanket after having a chip pan fire but this event has definitely changed my mind. I have considered using a shotgun but carrying one is impractical as I stalk a long way from my vehicle, using a rifle at very close range is difficult due to the length where immobilisation of the animal is needed or where single handed operation of the firearm is needed ( such as restraining a tracking dog on a lead or holding dense vegetation out of the way) The sighting systems on most stalking rifles are not designed for close quarters unlike those on a pistol though you can sight down the side of the barrel with some degree of accuracy. There are no suitable down-loaded highly frangible cartridges available anyway in the cartridges that I use (308, 7 RM and 6.5x47). There are some subsonic FMJ 308 rounds available from Lapua but they are not suited to sub 5m dispatch due to the bullet construction. Pistol cartridges (especially the 38special/357) are available in many different types including shotshells, low powered wad cutters up to more potent 357 soft points that would likely be adequate at close range if a chest shot on a stag was needed.
I have recently applied for a variation for a 2 shot 38/357 that was declined. I have subsequently instigated an appeal via the crown court that is currently ongoing. My current thinking is that anyone who has to undertake humane dispatch at close range has a valid reason to own or have access to an appropriate tool that is safer than using a deer calibre rifle if they so wish. This desire to work safely is supported in law and should be accepted by the police. The difficulty is knowing where the threshold for good reason stands. It seems to be accepted that wounding of deer occurs in between 5-7% based on published information. That being the case, a stalker who shoots 50 deer a year may realistically expect to take a second shot around 2-4 times per year. It is not possible to be certain whether the soil underneath the deer is rocky or not so each of these shots could produce a potentially lethal ricochet, and it only takes one shot to kill. Ricochets may be made even more likely when using monometal lead free bullets whether the tips are prefragmented or not. Even the sintered metal core bullets like the Geco Zero have a solid rear core that is designed not to deform and are likely to ping off into the wide blue yonder. I will keep you all posted of how this proceeds.
I have recently applied for a variation for a 2 shot 38/357 that was declined. I have subsequently instigated an appeal via the crown court that is currently ongoing. My current thinking is that anyone who has to undertake humane dispatch at close range has a valid reason to own or have access to an appropriate tool that is safer than using a deer calibre rifle if they so wish. This desire to work safely is supported in law and should be accepted by the police. The difficulty is knowing where the threshold for good reason stands. It seems to be accepted that wounding of deer occurs in between 5-7% based on published information. That being the case, a stalker who shoots 50 deer a year may realistically expect to take a second shot around 2-4 times per year. It is not possible to be certain whether the soil underneath the deer is rocky or not so each of these shots could produce a potentially lethal ricochet, and it only takes one shot to kill. Ricochets may be made even more likely when using monometal lead free bullets whether the tips are prefragmented or not. Even the sintered metal core bullets like the Geco Zero have a solid rear core that is designed not to deform and are likely to ping off into the wide blue yonder. I will keep you all posted of how this proceeds.
I think they rely on folk giving up to be honest, despite them not following the HO guidance
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
A.410 shot pistol removes the risk of ricochet with shot cartridges, gives the option for a solid slug (with more muzzle energy than a 357 mag)if required, it also gives a perfect opportunity to use custom reduced loads and does not require a section 5 FAC
Oracle
Well-Known Member
Nothing to do with a S5 application, which can only be granted by the HO.
Such authority to possess and use such small firearms can be granted lawfully by the Chief Officer to be held on an FAC once “good reason” has been established. If such “good reason” would no longer apply or the holders certificate should expire or be revoked, the small firearm concerned would then revert to a S5 item.
Have held a .32 ACP single shot pistol for many years; this and a .410 single barrel shotgun I have found suitable for all call outs and needs.
SussexSteve
Well-Known Member
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
So, a .38 special or a .410g shot pistol with a 6” barrel is not technically a sec 5 firearm if conditioned on a sec 1?
Druid
Well-Known Member
That was what was done back when expanding projectiles were section 5. Condition was added to your section 1 cert to allow possession
I considered that and they do make sense in some regards, especially at contact distance but I am uncertain how accurate they are with solid slug at ranges up to 10m and the pattern with shot fails quite quickly. The Humane Slaughter Association recommend a maximum distance from muzzle to head of 25cm. A revolver can be employed at greater distance with greater precision. The greater muzzle energy is irrelevant in most cases and may be a bad thing
Druid
Well-Known Member
Just a thought, a bit off the wall but as muzzle loading pistols are allowed on section 1 could they be used?
Obviously not ideal but one of these kept enclosed in a waterproof bag may be an option?
Obviously not ideal but one of these kept enclosed in a waterproof bag may be an option?
THE WESTLAKE ALFA REVOLVER
How much do you miss your pistol shooting? If you are under 40 years old, you probably never really got the chance to own a pistol in the UK so, I guess you don’t miss it. However, for many of us, pistol shooting was our first introduction to firearms. There were legions of indoor 25…
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sikamalc
Administrator
What some of you have is NO experience of, is tracking a gut shot sika or Red in dense commercial forest. In the highlands.
Try using a 410
that would really **** it off. Or maybe a knife
Having been in that situation a few times it's impossible to use a rifle and a good revolver is a lot more useable.
But then many on here who joke about using one would probably be not allowed one?
Try using a 410
that would really **** it off. Or maybe a knife Having been in that situation a few times it's impossible to use a rifle and a good revolver is a lot more useable.
But then many on here who joke about using one would probably be not allowed one?
8x57
Distinguished Member
srvet have you considered the possibility of using chamber adapters in your .308win. These allow a .32acp or 32 S&W long pistol cartridge to be fired through your rifle barrel.
They can be a bit awkward to load in a bolt action rifle and you will still have the difficulty of sighting associated with a scoped rifle plus the difficulty of safe manipulation of the rifle if one hand is occupied with your dog, but at least you will have a round with much reduced velocity and also a choice of suitable bullets that would be less likely to over penetrate or ricochet.
They can be a bit awkward to load in a bolt action rifle and you will still have the difficulty of sighting associated with a scoped rifle plus the difficulty of safe manipulation of the rifle if one hand is occupied with your dog, but at least you will have a round with much reduced velocity and also a choice of suitable bullets that would be less likely to over penetrate or ricochet.
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
I have tried several types of factory slug through a pistol with a 6” barrel, the worst were accurate enough to head shoot deer or fox at 3m and the best at up to 10m, the best factory I found were Winchester X and my home loads were even better, as for shot cartridges they are performing very well at the recommended distance (60-80mm pattern 25cm) but unlike solid rounds do not exit and that for me the point of a shot pistol, only used at very close range anyway.
Ammo is a lot cheaper and easier to find as well
nauman
Well-Known Member
Can I ask what sort of 410 shot pistol you use and it’s dimensions please. The reason I ask is the ones I have seen either look like a sawn off shotgun and are quite long or are the odd derringer things that also chamber 45 long colt. I have considered using the 38 special shot cartridges for very close work. The variation in accuracy you report is a bit alarming with some slugs failing at 3m and others at 10m. Most revolvers I have shot would be more consistent than that
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