lead ammunition HSE report

[Liveonce]

The majority of that is true of any hobby or passtime over the coming years. Everything is getting more expensive.

People starting off shooting will still be able to use airguns.

People starting off will still be able to buy cheap shotguns capable of shooting SP steel. Steel cartridges are no more expensive than lead.

People starting off will still be able to buy cheap full bore rifles and there is affordable non-lead ammo that works.

I am already doing all of the above and I'm not in any way well off.

steel cartridges with biodegradable wads are more expensive than lead with fibre wads, you need to compare like with like.

The issue then becomes is it acceptable given the worldwide focus on plastic pollution for shooting to claim its green when scattering millions and millions of single use plastic wads around the countryside. Which as I said previously is now the problem Denmark is facing.

Personally I have no problem moving to steel, however I too am not any way well off, so my current thinking is to buy as you say a cheap shotgun and use steel shot with standard fibre wads, if I have to buy a new gun every few years it may well be cheaper than buying several thousand cartridges with biodegradable wads over the years.

wads by the way that for some take a few years to degrade and one farm I shoot over has already said they do not want them used. As when I did try some they were on the grass fields like four bladed helicopters and it is a dairy farm, their business, their cows, their land their rules or shoot else where.

 

[Leec6.5]

Something deeply unpleasant about your attitude to other shooters who may not have a viable alternative for their particular type of firearm.

As long as you’re alright though that’s all that counts for you I suppose.

No at all, it is not my fault there is no other option for others firearms is it?!

I just say it as it is in black and white i am afraid!

And yes i am fine as i only shoot centrefire rifles.

My days of shotguns etc are long gone!

 

[Heym SR20]

The whole point of the BASC and other organisations approach was to get ahead of the curve on all this.

But there are many in shooting community that stuck their heads in the sand and done nothing about this.

So rather than having a voluntary removal of lead live quarry shooting - which most can live with, we will end up with a complete ban on all lead ammunition thanks the very clear intentions of many to carry on using it.

And those of us who like small bore shotguns or unusual rifle cartridges we can wait till manufacturers catch up, or home load.

And I use a 16 bore and a 410.

And the government that is bringing this in is the same government that brought in BREXIT and all the fun and games that has brought to many and I am constantly reminded that the majority voted for both. So those who don’t like the lead ban - well if you voted the current government, its the government you voted for that is doing this.

 

[Leec6.5]

The whole point of the BASC and other organisations approach was to get ahead of the curve on all this.

But there are many in shooting community that stuck their heads in the sand and done nothing about this.

So rather than having a voluntary removal of lead live quarry shooting - which most can live with, we will end up with a complete ban on all lead ammunition thanks the very clear intentions of many to carry on using it.

And those of us who like small bore shotguns or unusual rifle cartridges we can wait till manufacturers catch up, or home load.

And I use a 16 bore and a 410.

And the government that is bringing this in is the same government that brought in BREXIT and all the fun and games that has brought to many and I am constantly reminded that the majority voted for both. So those who don’t like the lead ban - well if you voted the current government, its the government you voted for that is doing this.

Im loving the brexit twist in your post!

 

[Liveonce]

Just looked on just cartridges for a steel shot cartridge with biodegradable wads you are looking at £400 plus per 1000 for game/pigeon cartridges that is at least £100 more than a size 6 lead shot cartridge and £150 more than a size 7 lead shot which can be used for pigeon decoy shooting.

 

[T.eddie]

I


The report was as expected, as whatever shooting you do, the next generation will know no different but entry into the sport will be very challenging and the decline as current shooters expire, business will struggle to survive as will some clay grounds, it is heading that way with current prices of ammunition, cartridges, game birds and clays, then the cost and hurdles of obtaining a firearms licence and possibly soon to include that for airguns.
Shooting will return to a sport for wealthy. The full effect of the rising cost of living and potentially much higher interest rates making mortgages more expensive may take until next year to fully impact on what is a hobby for most.

Hopefully I will be proved wrong, but I can see it is heading towards a cliff edge.

I'm not sure it will to be honest, I have a huglu o/u which is steel proof bought for maye 600 or so a couple of years ago brand new (this is a 12g), I also have a couple of farms that I elect to shoot steel only due to the proximity and potential for drainage into rivers etc even when pheasant shooting I'm not particularly well off but I think as with anything if you love doing something you find a way to make it work
I think it's one of those things where the individual has to decide what they want to spend their money on and prioritise to better suit what they want to do

 

[User00040]

Something deeply unpleasant about your attitude to other shooters who may not have a viable alternative for their particular type of firearm.

As long as you’re alright though that’s all that counts for you I suppose.

Aye, it's the 'Fudd' mentality exemplified...

 

[cjm1066]

Remember the good old days

Reset points every 3,000 miles, decoke engine at 20,000 and rebuild at 60,000, but we used lead in petrol and were happy.

Now engines last 150,000+, virtually no breakdowns due to ignition/fuel supply and we use unleaded petrol. We are happier.

Lead will disappear from the gunships, our choices limited to nonlead or giving up our sport.

I will be shooting in 20 years time (I hope), using lead will be forgotten then.

 

[Whitefront]

wads by the way that for some take a few years to degrade and one farm I shoot over has already said they do not want them used. As when I did try some they were on the grass fields like four bladed helicopters and it is a dairy farm, their business, their cows, their land their rules or shoot else where.

Fibre wads can take a long time to actually disappear - longer, I think , than the Eley Ecowads, which can break down in wet weather within a few weeks. I have seen fibre wads at least six months old, lying in pasture. But the reason neither is a problem is that both are formed of vegetable matter, which duly degrades into organic molecules. The actual timescale is not critical - though the sooner the better, I suppose (and the landowner may have his own ideas, of course). Livestock chew all sorts of organic non-food objects - bones, wood, etc - but it normally doesn't harm them (unless stuck in their mouth/gullet - like a sharp piece of bone). Oil-derived plastic, as used in plaswads, is very different, for reasons we all know.

 

[Liveonce]

The whole point of the BASC and other organisations approach was to get ahead of the curve on all this.

But there are many in shooting community that stuck their heads in the sand and done nothing about this.

So rather than having a voluntary removal of lead live quarry shooting - which most can live with, we will end up with a complete ban on all lead ammunition thanks the very clear intentions of many to carry on using it.

And those of us who like small bore shotguns or unusual rifle cartridges we can wait till manufacturers catch up, or home load.

And I use a 16 bore and a 410.

And the government that is bringing this in is the same government that brought in BREXIT and all the fun and games that has brought to many and I am constantly reminded that the majority voted for both. So those who don’t like the lead ban - well if you voted the current government, its the government you voted for that is doing this.

you won’t be using biodegradable wads in your 16 bore or .410 for a very long time if ever, unless you make your own.

have you not noticed the current biodegradable wads have not made it to the shops that’s because they are being kept as USP for the cartridge manufactures as each make or buy them in.

 

[Liveonce]

Fibre wads can take a long time to actually disappear - longer, I think , than the Eley Ecowads, which can break down in wet weather within a few weeks. I have seen fibre wads at least six months old, lying in pasture. But the reason neither is a problem is that both are formed of vegetable matter, which duly degrades into organic molecules. The actual timescale is not critical - though the sooner the better, I suppose. Livestock chew all sorts of organic non-food objects - bones, wood, etc - but it normally doesn't harm them (unless stuck in their mouth/gullet - like a sharp piece of bone). Oil-derived plastic, as used in plaswads, is very different, for reasons we all know.

actually I am told the polymer long chain molecules that make plastic are the same Hydrogen Carbon atoms regardless if made from oil or vegetable, makes sense if you think about it. Biodegradable plastics contain additives that make it break down like oxo-degradable plastic.

eley eco wads are not made of vegetable matter but are made from PVOH which is much like PVA water soluble,

 

[Sharpie]

The whole point of the BASC and other organisations approach was to get ahead of the curve on all this.

But there are many in shooting community that stuck their heads in the sand and done nothing about this.

So rather than having a voluntary removal of lead live quarry shooting - which most can live with, we will end up with a complete ban on all lead ammunition thanks the very clear intentions of many to carry on using it.

And those of us who like small bore shotguns or unusual rifle cartridges we can wait till manufacturers catch up, or home load.

And I use a 16 bore and a 410.

And the government that is bringing this in is the same government that brought in BREXIT and all the fun and games that has brought to many and I am constantly reminded that the majority voted for both. So those who don’t like the lead ban - well if you voted the current government, its the government you voted for that is doing this.

Never start a sentence with a preposition, I was taught. And, and and, but but but.

Trying to bring Brexit into the equation is farcical. It s only because of it that we have our own, Great British, independence to assess such matters independently for our particular circumstances, whilst the EU interminably drags on, but will probably get to the same conclusion somewhat later.

If you aren't already prepared for what's coming, maybe behind the curve or completely off the radar, then sharpen up your ideas, is all that I can say. There may be business opportunities for those in the game. Maybe the last lead shot tower here will become museum piece, meanwhile party on.

 

[StephenToast]

Just looked on just cartridges for a steel shot cartridge with biodegradable wads you are looking at £400 plus per 1000 for game/pigeon cartridges that is at least £100 more than a size 6 lead shot cartridge and £150 more than a size 7 lead shot which can be used for pigeon decoy shooting.

Jocker Biosteel Clay= £221/1000

Bio Steel Clay 12Ga | Shotgun Cartridges Delivered Nationwide

Order Bio Steel Clay 12Ga online and have them delivered nationwide | Next day delivery where possible

www.justcartridges.com

Biosteel game = £369/1000

Bio Steel Game 12Ga | Shotgun Cartridges Delivered Nationwide

Order Bio Steel Game 12Ga online and have them delivered nationwide | Next day delivery where possible

www.justcartridges.com

And they go through a £25 AYA sxs and guess what. They work.

 

[Heym SR20]

The likes of Peregrine and Fox have been producing non toxic and non expanding target / training bullets for a good while in the usual target calibres, and they are about half the price of expanding bullets.

And militaries are already starting to remove from training areas and producing lead free ammo. This will undoubtedly feed into the civilian market.

 

[Whitefront]

eley eco wads are not made of vegetable matter but are made from PVOH which is much like PVA water soluble,

True, I should have said organic, not vegetable.

 

[AckAck]

‘Lead occurs naturally in the earth's crust, where it combines with other elements such as oxygen and sulfur. It is used to make batteries and metal mixtures’. Now I’m confused

 

[Liveonce]

Jocker Biosteel Clay= £221/1000

Bio Steel Clay 12Ga | Shotgun Cartridges Delivered Nationwide

Order Bio Steel Clay 12Ga online and have them delivered nationwide | Next day delivery where possible

www.justcartridges.com

Biosteel game = £369/1000

Bio Steel Game 12Ga | Shotgun Cartridges Delivered Nationwide

Order Bio Steel Game 12Ga online and have them delivered nationwide | Next day delivery where possible

www.justcartridges.com

And they go through a £25 AYA sxs and guess what. They work.

Both of them have been unavailable for a long time, I bet they will not be that price when or if they come available again.

plus at £221 size 7 steel shot is really not suitable for live quarry the pellet energy is equivalent to size 9 lead shot.

 

[Liveonce]

‘Lead occurs naturally in the earth's crust, where it combines with other elements such as oxygen and sulfur. It is used to make batteries and metal mixtures’. Now I’m confused

also occurs naturally in a lot of every day foods, that is consumed far more frequently and by more of the population than game meet,

 

[User00033]

I have killed more deer with copper than most can ever dream of killing with lead.

Out of 4000 copper rounds 4 have penciled in 15 years thats not too bad average is it?

Everything i say on this subject is 100% fact from experience and not listening to others who think they know.

You sir are a sheep how about being a big boy and finding out for yourself without listening to all the bollocks.

I will even pass my wisdom of you wish

You’re worse than me, and that’s saying something.

I would dearly love to host you here - your rifle, your ammunition, your dog - and take you up on the hill to shoot our pest deer in our conditions at our ranges. It would be highly informative to see how many days you spend searching for deer, because we’d make you go find every single one of them - that’s the only condition, ok? One thing for sure, you’d go home very fit (and both dog and owner with tails between legs).

Our conclusion from our shooting is that the standard swaged copper bullet design is unethical beyond low medium range. You’ll get lucky with 2-3 in 10 and strike something immediately vital, but for the rest you’ll see far longer runs and more lost, wounded deer. Swaged copper has bad BC and less reliable windage and simply aren’t as good performers in our conditions in terms of accuracy and precision. You can argue with that if you like, and surely will with all the sarkiness and smirks, I couldn’t give a flying fuk. 375 yards? A chip shot. You don’t shoot in our conditions, so you don’t know. Period.

Not that it should really bother you or 95% of UK recreational shooters, who don’t shoot like we do, ever. But for those that do, it’s a critical problem.

Swaged copper bullets are an old design that will one day be obselete. There’s a whole bunch of innovative manufacturers who are delivering a new level of confidence as to what non-lead bullets can do, which is really exciting. You guys should do everything you can to support Yew Tree and Virtus and so on, because that’s where the design philosophy is going. The very idea that you can have a product range that delivers progressively greater expansion / fragmentation to suit different applications, game and conditions is fantastic. Far more flexible and useful than the one size fits all (with attendant bullshcit claims) that Barnes produces.

So how ‘bout it? You can come and have a holiday and be Ruapehu Deer Search for a week. Country so steep your knees will want to stay in Norfolk. And your dog will go on strike. I’ll keep some ELD-X and BTSP aside to help with the inevitable follow up shots (which I’ll do, ok?).

 

[StephenToast]

Both of them have been unavailable for a long time, I bet they will not be that price when or if they come available again.

plus at £221 size 7 steel shot is really not suitable for live quarry the pellet energy is equivalent to size 9 lead shot.

I can get them from my local gunshop.

They are perfectly adequate for live quarry.