lead ammunition HSE report
- Thread starter Utectok
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Social media.. brought something to the attention to others that would otherwise be kept quiet. Clearly this can be a blessing and a curse, depending on the subject matter.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
Where? When? I try not to, happy to apologise if required.
Brexit unicorn not being delivered? Say it isn’t so!
Reloader708
Well-Known Member
Seems silly to restrict ranges, the site will be full of lead already, the participants will gladly accept any risk and certain calibres will only function with lead.
The small bore association has put out an interesting statement, basically saying copper .22lr ammo are so inaccurate it just makes competition a lottery. Calibers like my
.45-70 become quite inpractical and elr calibers like .300 prc require the heaviest bullets available in .30 cal and those arnt made of copper!
Lead is done for anything going into the food chain, I accept that and I'll have dedicated rifles for killing deer, but cutting the throat of recreational shooting at club level...conspiracy?
The small bore association has put out an interesting statement, basically saying copper .22lr ammo are so inaccurate it just makes competition a lottery. Calibers like my
.45-70 become quite inpractical and elr calibers like .300 prc require the heaviest bullets available in .30 cal and those arnt made of copper!
Lead is done for anything going into the food chain, I accept that and I'll have dedicated rifles for killing deer, but cutting the throat of recreational shooting at club level...conspiracy?
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sikamalc
Administrator
That's all well and good Steve, but its a 100g bullet for 243 in Scotland. I hate to think how many 243 rifles there are in circulation. No doubt some will wing it and just use 80g.
At days end we are all into deer stalking because we are passionate about what we do. Whether its full time, semi pro or just recreational. Trouble is the shooting world is at times its own worst enemy. Whether we are eventually forced by LAW to use lead free is for the future. But to me, much like the banning of expanding ammo, many years back, which caused no end of issues, and had to be added to an FAC. Now after all these years its not required to be on an FAC.
Its the drip, drip affect that is eroding what we do as firearms owners. Look at the squabbles about having Level 1 or 2 ? That's what you should all be concerned about. Deer stalking has changed a great deal over the years since I first started. But some of the issues in it have put a wedge between us as wide as the Atlantic.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
In the HSE document there is mention of "historical weapons". I would hope that BASC would use that door push that to include shotguns originally made before, say, 1925 or 1955 (irrespective of subsequent modification) which in the case of English proofed guns can be evidenced by the first set of proof marks.
sikamalc
Administrator
Yes the thought of some one pushing a copper round through a Martini Henry or a Brown Bess would be interesting to see
Len the dog
Well-Known Member
This thread is starting to get more catty than Wagatha Christie, and I thought the polarising effect of Brexit was bad. Who knew that SD was such a cauldron of emotion eh?
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Yes. On any old rifle to get the correct weight to shoot to the aiming distances on the original iron sights you need the correct weight bullet at the original velocity. Which is why modern Swiss black powder was always favoured by today's shooters as unlike Henry Krank's stuff it was full power powder!Yes the thought of some one pushing a copper round through a Martini Henry or a Brown Bess would be interesting to see
The only way with non-lead to match the weight would be to increase the length of the non-lead substitute bullet. This either will be too long to feed through the curve of a M-H breech or fit the opening in a Snider or if the extra length is "hidden" inside the cartridge case will reduce the powder space.
Not to also say that being longer the bullet will have a longer bearing surface. We know already that in the twist of .243 Winchester and 6mm Remington this means 100 grain bullets are unstable. But in old rifles this issue may present as will pressure issues as longer bearing surface = higher pressures.
Jura
Well-Known Member
I remember when some owners of double rifles started loading Barnes monolithic bullets which resulted in barrels separating from the ribs and ‘Outside Rifling’ showing up on the outside of the barrels themselves.Yes the thought of some one pushing a copper round through a Martini Henry or a Brown Bess would be interesting to see
This was visible where the rifling appears to be pressed from the inside to the outside of the barrels.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
The 243 debate is another problem i
Anyway it’s irrelevant.
Lead ban is coming best get your head around it.
Lead pipes dont go bang and kill things, bullets and cartridges do.Death by 1000 cuts, shooting countryside pursuits are on a dangerous path, I would love to see the evidence of spent lead doing anyharm, also alot of people still drink from lead pipes and appear to be living a long full and healthy life
Anyway it’s irrelevant.
Lead ban is coming best get your head around it.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Two of the clay shoots I use are in wooded areas and you can't use steel there as the ricochet risk is too great. I doubt both places would be able to cut down necessary trees as they are in protected areas.
There seems to be a few on here that because they can use a lead free alternative for their specific shooting interest they don't care about anyone else.
As Mr Toast pointed out that shooter are in a minority and the general public is either anti or just doesn't care it's all the more reason to stick together. It's not rocket science to see that shotgun shooters (be it farmers, working folk clay shooting, competition shooters, rich toffs) make up the bulk of UK firearms holders and if we lose the majority of them to a lead ban then there will be even less support for the next ban or added controls.
It's not even a wacky conspiracy theory, it's happened, it's happening and to not see that or not care is either very naive or selfish.
There seems to be a few on here that because they can use a lead free alternative for their specific shooting interest they don't care about anyone else.
As Mr Toast pointed out that shooter are in a minority and the general public is either anti or just doesn't care it's all the more reason to stick together. It's not rocket science to see that shotgun shooters (be it farmers, working folk clay shooting, competition shooters, rich toffs) make up the bulk of UK firearms holders and if we lose the majority of them to a lead ban then there will be even less support for the next ban or added controls.
It's not even a wacky conspiracy theory, it's happened, it's happening and to not see that or not care is either very naive or selfish.
That's a pretty poor comparison as the HSE report says its a risk to consume lead and harms environment I'd like real unbiased evidence of that.
As was pointed earlier the environmental impact of spent shot against industrial production/Mining pollution is miniscule in comparison.
Lead ban might be coming but it should be push back against as much as possible like SGA are doing.
As was pointed earlier the environmental impact of spent shot against industrial production/Mining pollution is miniscule in comparison.
Lead ban might be coming but it should be push back against as much as possible like SGA are doing.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
There are going to be bigger hurdles to jump in years to come thats for sure, god forbid there is another public shooting by a licensed shooter we will all be FUKED permanently!
This lead thing is just a drop in the ocean and another nail in the coffin.
Keep jumping the hurdles and carry on a bit longer!
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
By who?
Anyone or organisation with clout Have already rolled over and surrendered!
As I’ve said this before we as shooters are a very small voting minority, our votes in the grand scheme of things mean nothing, we hold no clout no sway!
That is something everybody needs to get their head around because for everyone of us who supports shooting there are 100 against at least, what we do is not pink and fluffy and animal friendly in the eyes of the general public and God Forbid in years to come someone decides we are going to take all privately owned firearms and shotguns away there is exactly fuk all we can do about it
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