Recent post on Fox Bullets alleging rifle damage and supplier negligence

[hw101]

I've only just seen this, and very importantly I need to be clear that I am happy with the response from Edinburgh rifles to clarify their improvements in quality assurance checking and recognising there were issues, and will certainly be encouraging people I know to now get in touch directly if they have had issues that have lead to personal cost. I have also said said to Ed in a private messages that I was happy to retract the title comment that has connection to a mod incident where my undertanding was the ranger needed medical leave. Given that the title comment couldn't be edited then removal was appropriate as it is unfair to leave an inaccurate comment which I can only apologise for. I must however point out that I believe Ed himself has acknowledged he has experience of attempting to drill out bullets stuck in the rifling that can only be because of squib rounds? Due to the exceptionally difficult nature of that process with monolithic construction which is likely to fail and see damage to the rifling, can I ask if in fact Ed will in fact acknowledge he has direct issues of this due to fox ammunition? After all, we have already established that there was production issues where ammo sent out got into private hands and a recall was initiated.

Sorry Frank, there was an obvious and considered need to post. Which has largely been confirmed bar one element which I was happy to correct,

The facts should have been established before your post. The information provided is hearsay. Circulating unsubstantiated rumour that negatively impacts someone's business helps nobody and could end up in legal action against you. The belligerent tone and lack of contrition you adopt in an attempt to justify yourself aren't likely to help either. Put down the shovel?

 

[hendrix's rifle]

So much for freedom of speech ey back in your box's.
Also - anyone saying 'legal action against such and such', get a grip. He's clearly called Mr lead free isn't he... Oh but wait we will find out by IP addresses... Brilliant, until someone is using a VPN like the majority of people nowadays. Stop with the bull****

 

[Sharpie]

I too was confused about whatever point Mr Lead Free was trying to make, based seemingly on hearsay or at best second or third hand anecdotal information. With a deliberately provocative title. And precious little knowledge about the realties of safe gun handling in the event of a mis-fire/squib load/badly maintained rifle.

45 posts to his name, so far. Reaction score 41. Seems that he just likes to stir and attention-seek.

I don't buy into his false contrition.

 

[Waz77]

No danger of them damaging my barrel, I reckon rifles will be obsolete by time I get chance to load some (whistling smiley)

 

[Mr lead free]

To be honest Sharpie, it's not quantity it's quality and your quantity is far short of quality but that aside, have I not the right to post about something that's been bothering me? Especially when we've had it confirmed there were serious quality control issues that needed a recall of issued stock.

 

[User00033]

To be honest Sharpie, it's not quantity it's quality and your quantity is far short of quality but that aside, have I not the right to post about something that's been bothering me? Especially when we've had it confirmed there were serious quality control issues that needed a recall of issued stock.

In this instance, your “right” to post should have been trumped by your sense of fairness and judgement. One phone call direct to Ed would have given you all the information you need, but you didn’t do that.

This is social media at its absolute worst. Unsubstantiated accusations that do not involve either of the two parties, the seller or user. Matters as serious as this are only ever solvable by direct communication between the affected parties, public trial by social media is an indecent approach that only achieves slander. Sadly these days it is the new normal.

I would be flabbergasted if such incidences occurred and the individual buying and/or using the ammunition did not go directly to the seller, and the seller did not seek to rectify the situation. It would be nonsensical in the extreme for Ed not to deal with any ammunition problems, if they did indeed occur. Nonsensical.

Take a big step back for a moment and have a think how you would feel if you were in Ed’s shoes.

 

[Stalker62]

To be honest Sharpie, it's not quantity it's quality and your quantity is far short of quality but that aside, have I not the right to post about something that's been bothering me? Especially when we've had it confirmed there were serious quality control issues that needed a recall of issued stock.

Chap.

You fcuked up. No shame in that.

A half-arsed apology/excuse is not going to cut it. Shame in that.

Bite the bullet (see what happened there?), cough it up, apologise and move on.

 

[ashray]

more worrying for reloaders would be, was it a defective bullet /load or could it happy to a reloader following the fox bullet load data,i think any one who has bought the fox bullets should be informed that they may be a safety issue. not just brush it away.i am gratefull for the op for bringing this to our attention. we are a very long way from safe non lead ammunition/bullets in our firearms.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Sorry Frank, there was an obvious and considered need to post. Which has largely been confirmed bar one element which I was happy to correct,

Which was?
You have hidden behind anonymity and made several direct, and as yet unsubstantiated claims that Fox ammo has “destroyed” more than one rifle.

You indicated that one or more people have had their rifles damaged or destroyed as a dorect resultnof using Fox ammo, that they have contacted me or my staff and were “sent packing”, more specifically that we would “not take responsibility” for the damage or the alleged failure of the ammunition.

You have made a direct and again incorrect allegation that Fox ammunition was responsible for not only the failure of a moderator but injury to FEE ranger involved.

I have asked you for details of the alleged incidents, if they happened I am the first person who should find out.
I have asked you to get those involved to contact me.
I asked to speak directly with you.
I have been more than transparent about our failings and also the way that I have dealt with them in the past and will continue to do so.
You made no attempt to contact me and as far as I and all of my staff have confirmed, no-one has contacted us about the issues you describe.

I asked you to leave your original thread up to give you the opportunity to retract the inaccurate statements and for me to defend myself against the frankly libellous accusations which you say have “largely been confirmed”
We have different definitions of “confirmation”.

When you asked Admin to delete rather than edit I was forced to publish screenshots so the casual viewer doesn’t leave with the Title of your thread stuck in their memory potentially causing irreparable damage to the business and reputation.
I have been provided with a PDF of the entire thread.

You have yet to retract the statements that do not appear to have substance or those that are just plain wrong but continue to assert they were made with good.

You asked after i started this response
“do you not have the right to post something that has been bothering you”

Yes of course you do.

But when that something didn’t happen to you and you can’t substantiate the details of the accusations you have made based on those things that didnt happen to you, or they are proven to be incorrect then I also have the right to a retraction.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

more worrying for reloaders would be, was it a defective bullet /load or could it happy to a reloader following the fox bullet load data,i think any one who has bought the fox bullets should be informed that they may be a safety issue. not just brush it away.i am gratefull for the op for bringing this to our attention. we are a very long way from safe non lead ammunition/bullets in our firearms.

There is no “safety issue”
The published data is Proof House tested
Frankly statements like your last sentence are deeply concerning and not based on any logical argument

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Which was?
You have hidden behind anonymity and made several direct, and as yet unsubstantiated claims that Fox ammo has “destroyed” more than one rifle.

You indicated that one or more people have had their rifles damaged or destroyed as a dorect resultnof using Fox ammo, that they have contacted me or my staff and were “sent packing”, more specifically that we would “not take responsibility” for the damage or the alleged failure of the ammunition.

You have made a direct and again incorrect allegation that Fox ammunition was responsible for not only the failure of a moderator but injury to FEE ranger involved.

I have asked you for details of the alleged incidents, if they happened I am the first person who should find out.
I have asked you to get those involved to contact me.
I asked to speak directly with you.
I have been more than transparent about our failings and also the way that I have dealt with them in the past and will continue to do so.
You made no attempt to contact me and as far as I and all of my staff have confirmed, no-one has contacted us about the issues you describe.

I asked you to leave your original thread up to give you the opportunity to retract the inaccurate statements and for me to defend myself against the frankly libellous accusations which you say have “largely been confirmed”
We have different definitions of “confirmation”.

When you asked Admin to delete rather than edit I was forced to publish screenshots so the casual viewer doesn’t leave with the Title of your thread stuck in their memory potentially causing irreparable damage to the business and reputation.
I have been provided with a PDF of the entire thread.

You have yet to retract the statements that do not appear to have substance or those that are just plain wrong but continue to assert they were made with good.

You asked after i started this response
“do you not have the right to post something that has been bothering you”

Yes of course you do.

But when that something didn’t happen to you and you can’t substantiate the details of the accusations you have made based on those things that didnt happen to you, or they are proven to be incorrect then I also have the right to a retraction.

Well said!

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

more worrying for reloaders would be, was it a defective bullet /load or could it happy to a reloader following the fox bullet load data,i think any one who has bought the fox bullets should be informed that they may be a safety issue. not just brush it away.i am gratefull for the op for bringing this to our attention. we are a very long way from safe non lead ammunition/bullets in our firearms.

What a load of BOLLOCKS

 

[Mr lead free]

unfortunately Ed, your had some crap quality control for a while getting your ammo produced (teathing troubles) i thing you called it. That ammo would obviously ended up in the hands of stalkers before the recall but as you yourself have indicated you have experience of trying to drill out bullets locked in the rifling of what we must assume it was a rifle firing your ammo taken to you. All I can suggest is you protest too much.... look well done for cashing in on an opportunity to pump out ammo, glad it's safe now.

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

Why must we assume that it was Fox bullets?

 

[Mr lead free]

ps, fox bullets home loaded are as safe as any other bullet choice following safe loading practices, there is nothing at all wrong with the bullets and they do quite well.

 

[Cranborne]

Why must we assume that it was Fox bullets?

Exactly.

 

[Lancaster]

unfortunately Ed, your had some crap quality control for a while getting your ammo produced (teathing troubles) i thing you called it. That ammo would obviously ended up in the hands of stalkers before the recall but as you yourself have indicated you have experience of trying to drill out bullets locked in the rifling of what we must assume it was a rifle firing your ammo taken to you. All I can suggest is you protest too much.... look well done for cashing in on an opportunity to pump out ammo, glad it's safe now.

So, to cut to the chase, you have tried to smear the reputation of a well known and well respected RFD, based upon incidents that may or may not have happened with other people's rifles, so no first hand experience at all.
Basically you should wind your neck in and let the people whose rifles were involved in the alleged incidents contact the manufacturer or vendor direct, instead of taking it on yourself to start posts on a highly regarded forum that could cause damage to the manufacturer or vendors reputation, without you having any direct experiences of possible instances of duff ammunition that you have rightly, or wrongly highlighted.
Besides that, any bloody idiot who chucks a round down the barrel after a possible misfire from a centre fire rifle should only be trusted with a water pistol.

 

[Husky]

Some people don't know when to stop digging the hole they are in, at this rate we will have a tunnel to Australia.

 

[griff]

unfortunately Ed, your had some crap quality control for a while getting your ammo produced (teathing troubles) i thing you called it. That ammo would obviously ended up in the hands of stalkers before the recall but as you yourself have indicated you have experience of trying to drill out bullets locked in the rifling of what we must assume it was a rifle firing your ammo taken to you. All I can suggest is you protest too much.... look well done for cashing in on an opportunity to pump out ammo, glad it's safe now.

Wow, that last sentence has got to be one of the most patronising and damaging things you have said, disgraceful.

 

[Mr lead free]

Actually Lancaster, at no time did I mention Ed or Edinburgh rifles by trade of name until Ed brought this new thread into full view. In terms of squib rounds however, I have to disagree that since the vast majority of novice rifle users do not understand the idea of a squib misfire, and in any case if a lead free bullet following insufficient charge to clear the barrel is locked up the rifling then the rifle is now scrap before the dangerous rechambering of any following cartridge. Husky, while you might think i'm digging, a lot of people can see this wasn't about me. Ed has already said everything I needed him to say, confirmed there were quality control issues, neck tension, no or insufficient charge issues etc but most importantly stated that he will follow the standards set out in the sale of good act. And Griff... you're highlighed part is factually correct, whether you like it or not.