badger cull

[craigievarkiller]

Cull wont make a sod of a difference to TB transit.
Need more scrutiny on cattle movement from farm to farm.
I have a large area of NE Scotland where there is a large population of badger throughout beef cattle land and we have no known TB cases.
Im sure none of us will view shooting badgers as sport or sporting. Very visible, slow target illuminaed by multi-million candle power lamp ???

 

[HME]

Only one thing transports TB on to farms previously clear and thats humans ! Shooting badgers wont make a **** of difference they need to get the test they carry out perfected first of all !

Sadly misguided and ill informed! As a pedigree camelid breeder from the south west this is a decision that I have been waiting for and couldn't come soon enough. Perhaps I will have to build a 'Bolting Badger' target at the range for the lucky marksmen.

HME

 

[375 mag]

So let me get this straight the farmer can shoot all the badgers in his area so he will be free of TB so will all the farmers who carry out the cull then waver any right to claim of the tax payer for any more infected cattle ?

 

[Sinistral]

I watched this commons debate live yesterday afternoon. It is by no means a done deal ...... quote:-.



In the event of a decision to permit culling following the further discussion with stakeholders, any culling licences granted by Natural England would be subject to strict conditions, based on evidence from the RBCT, designed to ensure that culling results in an overall decrease in the disease in the areas where it takes place.

Applications for licences would only be considered for a cull area of at least 150 km2, and with culling to be carried out by groups of farmers over a minimum of four years.

Farmer groups would have to take reasonable measures to establish barriers and buffers, such as rivers, coastlines and motorways, or areas where there are no cattle or where vaccination of badgers occurs, at the edge of culling areas to minimise the effect of ‘perturbation’, where disturbing the badger population can cause an increase in TB in cattle in the surrounding area.

Mrs Spelman said that her announcement should send a clear message to the farming industry.

“If culling is ultimately authorised, we will look to the farmers involved to show that they take their responsibility very seriously, and that they are committed to delivering culling effectively and humanely.”



What I also read was that if DEFRA approval is given following the 2 pilot culls, the 10 subsequent culls have to be financed entirely by major landowners at their own expense. Tenant farmers are excluded from all arrangements as they don't have the legal standing.

There is to be a special training course, with DSC1 as a minimum entry requirement. The identities of the shooting team participants will be be kept secret. There will also be strict supervision of licensees 'on the ground', and ongoing scientific assessment of the cull results by Natural England.

Bearing all these caveats in mind, I think this is being kicked into the long grass. If it survives legal challenge, and activist action, and still goes ahead it can only turn out to be a hush hush night-time massacre in selected areas of the South West. There is a stated policy not to wipe out the indigenous population, so that's another limitation.

Thankfully it's not happening in my neck of the woods. I wouldn't touch this job with a ten-foot pole.

 

[mickjgardner]

how often do you see a badger compared to how many there actually are.Shooting will do nothing to affect their numbers.Deer carry tb and we have been shooting them for years and their numbers remain unaffected. shooting does not affect populations of anything to any great degree

 

[old man]

Between the requirments from Spellman and the Brockophiles it's unworkable.
What happens if you are a clear farm in a cull area, you might end up with an influx of Brocks possibly bringing TB in.
Sounds like a winner to me.
Lots of nasty men running around with rifles too probably, I just hope nobody ever overkills one with too large a calibre.
It would be interesting to see a counter claim in law against the antis if it's stopped, for the costs incurred from the stoppage for the replacement of the lost cattle etc.
What a tangled web we weave.

 

[JeffreyL]

Craigievarkiller if you you put your brain in gear before your mouth you would know that Scotland is TB clear therefore healthy badgers cannot infect healthy cattle and visa versa. 375 Mag you are ill informed and ignorant of the facts, I am surprised that you can carry a rifle and that chip at the same time.

 

[Bandit Country]

shooting does not affect populations of anything to any great degree

You might want to look at the population demographics for UK, France and Germany over the period 1910 to 1930 to get a sense of how shooting can effect populations. Bombing and shelling also works well, but I don't think the folk in Whitehall will sanction that for badgers. However if you need to cover 150 square kilometres for a contiguous cull, then MLRS is probably the way to go.

As for deer carrying bTB I think the incidence of TB in deer is markedly less than badgers. Indeed it may be the very fact that "we have been shooting them for years" that helps in keeping the incidence of deer TB low?

 

[JeffreyL]

If you look at the feeding habits of deer and cattle it is not surprising that deer catch TB. If you look at the 'hot spots' for deer infections they are the same as for cattle and badgers. You won't find TB in a wild deer in Scotland. As for culls being effective, in Ireland in one area after a cull of badgers the incidence of TB in dairy cattle fell by 97%, just a coincidence I suppose.

 

[shootingduckdog]

I am quite astounded by some of the views expressed here.

First, badgers carry TB and they can pass it to cattle.

Second badgers live in holes in the ground, it takes very little time to find the holes as there are usually virtual motorways leading to them. It would not then be that difficult with modern NV equipment etc to make a huge hole in a local population. They stay down the holes and come out at or around dark. How difficult can it be to wait.

Third, its not sport! No one is suggesting it and anyone who thinks it might be going to be should put their name forward publicly as I am sure at that point things will become distinctly "sporty" for them

Fourth, culls have been shown to work in various other countries (although I dont know what methods were employed)

Fifth, the badger population is currently unmoderated. We humans have ballsed up the ecosystem and we manage everything else. Lamping last year 1 saw 17 different badgers on 400 acres. 3 were not healthy but remained untouched as they are protected.

Sixth, never mind courses and costs the skills and expertise exist for sure but given the tens of millions paid in compensation each year, from the public purse, it should always show a positive return.

seventh, what difference does it make how easy or difficult shooting a badger might be? If they are to be controlled to prevent disease then surely the easier the better? (and from my experience of seeing them bolt off in the lamp when foxing and the fact that they dont call I suspect getting them in open play will be far tougher than some might think)

All irrelevant in my view as the antis will bog it down with politics and public opinion as the vast majority of punters think badgers are poor, defenceless and relatively rare creatures. Mostly cos they dont ever get off their arses and head into the countryside at the right time to see them.

 

[The Seeker]

Can't see it happening, too many tree huggers these days to get any sensible act through the legalities.

 

[dean]

standby for manditory badger cull course cost at least £300

yep am sure u wont get it for nowt

 

[flyfifer]

have you ever seen tb in any deer you have dealt with

 

[trouble]

badgers have only enjoyed full protection in recent years , before this they were trapped , shot, snared , gassed and dug to with terriers for many years and yet we still had badgers . Since the badger act numbers have exploded , as the population increased so have incedents of TB in cattle along side this numbers of lapwings , sky larks , hedgehogs , humble bees and hares have declined . I would think a highseat near a sett and feeding them into range with peanuts would be ideal , their not slow bumbling things in a lamp at all and if you look at them its a very small heart/lung or head area so i would think a heavey shotgun load would be better . And yes i have found TB in deer

 

[downwind]

have you ever seen tb in any deer you have dealt with

Several times, not a pretty sight!!

 

[Moonraker68]

A cull is way over due - this is a cattle area, and numerous farms have been affected by TB. It's good news for hedgehogs & bumble bees too; both have declined due to the increase in badgers. A licensed cull has got to be better for all (including the badger) than the various methods of control that you hear rumours off at the moment.

 

[bignoel]

a local farm i shoot on now and again has already applied for his badgers to be culled .mind you he has one of the countrys top beef cattle on it .

 

[stalkinginengland]

standby for manditory badger cull course cost at least £300

I heard the minister interveiwed on radio 4 about 5.45 yesterday morning (I expect it is on iplayer ) and she said that to be involved guns would need a minimum of DSC level 1 and to attend a short course on welfair. It was a good interview as far as the shooting community goes in my oppinion

mark

 

[Si]

Why has this suddenly become such a big issue?... Badger cull licensing is not a new thing, they have always been available through the proper channels. There's a section on the Defra website dated 2007 with PDF downloads for license application forms and advice on how to obtain one.

As for finding TB in deer, how many suspected cases are reported.... how grateful would a farmer be if a livestock movement restriction was imposed on him as a result of discovering an infected deer on his land? You could apply the same logic with badgers.

 

[Taff]

As usual alot of crxp spoken by ill-informed people on this forum, humans do not pass tb to cattle it is almost impossible for people to catch bovine tb or spread it,bovine tb is a economic disease like foot and mouth, without control would destroy the uk meat industry. Camilids are a possible source of infection along with deer, at present there is not a reliable test for either. There is no doubt that badgers carry Tb and are a possible source of infection and the only way to find out is sustained cull in a test area. As for the member of this forum who suggested farmers who take advantage of the cull, should not claim for there losses under TB, needs to ask himself that if he was in a industry where so called do gooders could prevent him from making a living would he be happy. And I Hope the the land he shoots on never has a tb outbreak or he may never see a deer again.