8% reduction in certificate holders in England and Wales

[sussexyeoman]

I can't help thinking that BASC are presenting a one-sided view, as they sometimes do.
As an adult I'd like to be presented with a link to the source figures, as well as the BASC take on them , so have gone off to find this for myself.
There hasn't been time to look at the detail yet.

The Home Office are saying that all new applications for an FAC, SGC, or co-terminous received up to 31st March 2022 were processed and completed.
There has been quite a jump in Revocations, and Applications Refused, and firearms stolen.
I know of at least 20 people who've given up after the long lockdown, including a few who've died.

The medical clearance requirement has added to the delay, explained officially as;-

A range of restrictions relating to the COVID-19 pandemic began on 12 March 2020, and the first UK lockdown measures were announced on 23 March 2020. Some figures presented for the previous year (year ending 31 March 2021) will have been affected by this, particularly those relating to new grant applications and visitor permits. Whilst most comparisons with the previous year have been retained as a valid measure of change over the period, changes should be considered in the context of the pandemic and treated with caution.

Statistics on firearm and shotgun certificates, England and Wales: April 2021 to March 2022

www.gov.uk

Sorry if I'm being thick, but where in here does it say all application since March 2022 have been processed and completed? I have been waiting since October 2021 and still not been processed.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

For £250 a better system wont be put in place, you are very naive to think that it would. They used that reasoning wast time they increased the fees, low and behold, things got worse!

The more you post the more it’s obvious you generally don’t have a clue about anything outside shooting a few deer.

You are correct, couldn't give a rats arse what happens outside of shooting deer!

Game / vermin or target Does not affect or interest me in the slightest!

And that offends people so be it, cant please everyone!

 

[SouNorHunt]

I applied for my license a few months ago (no update yet) so a few things I would add:
On the cost side I was surprised to hear the rate has been the same since 2015, I would’ve assumed a natural inflation so you’re already at £100 by this year - and
personally I would be happy to pay more than that as it’s only paying the police for 9 hours minimum wage labour to process the application which I’d imagine takes a lot longer, and in my opinion tax payers shouldn’t foot the rest of the bill for something I want to do.
The timescale also isn’t an issue for me personally as I can’t afford any paid stalks (don’t book a wedding and get into stalking at the same time!) but the communication should be better to at least give an idea of how long it will take as you are paying for a service.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I have read all the comments and thank you for the feedback and queries. Covid-19 and lockdowns will have had an impact on reduction of certificate holders and delays in firearms licensing have been a major factor inter-related with the pandemic but also an additional factor which was an issue before the pandemic and continue to be an issue ahead.

We are hearing time and time again about individuals postponing their application because they have heard about processing delays. There are thousands of applications not processed yet, there are thousands more people than usual not renewing and there are thousands less people than usual not applying

The processing delays and backlogs need to be resolved and we will continue to push for that and the Home Office figures provide ample evidence all the way down to force level.

The downloadable tables can be found from the links in the webpage below.

Statistics on firearm and shotgun certificates, England and Wales: April 2021 to March 2022

 

[Dickie]

I applied for my license a few months ago (no update yet) so a few things I would add:
On the cost side I was surprised to hear the rate has been the same since 2015, I would’ve assumed a natural inflation so you’re already at £100 by this year - and
personally I would be happy to pay more than that as it’s only paying the police for 9 hours minimum wage labour to process the application which I’d imagine takes a lot longer, and in my opinion tax payers shouldn’t foot the rest of the bill for something I want to do.
The timescale also isn’t an issue for me personally as I can’t afford any paid stalks (don’t book a wedding and get into stalking at the same time!) but the communication should be better to at least give an idea of how long it will take as you are paying for a service.

Your missing the point of the licensing for firearms and shotguns it’s not about what you want to do it is meant to be about public safety hence why the tax payer pays the bulk it’s because for them.
It has nothing to do with deer, targets, birds or clays it’s about gun ownership.

 

[25 Sharps]

You are correct, couldn't give a rats arse what happens outside of shooting deer!

Game / vermin or target Does not affect or interest me in the slightest!

And that offends people so be it, cant please everyone!

I wasn’t talking about shooting Lee.

And if you have nothing outside of shooting deer in your life that is very sad indeed (but not surprising), it doesn’t offend me I just feel quite sorry for you.

 

[Liveonce]

The processing delays and backlogs need to be resolved and we will continue to push for that and the Home Office figures provide ample evidence all the way down to force level.

Exactly what form does “push for that“ take? tea and biscuits with the home secretary?

Or a national newspaper advert spelling out the delays and difficulties in the process, like GPs not participating in the process and no fixed fee.

 

[Pedro]

I think that perhaps the safety angle should be explored more. If the various forces are not properly staffing their licensing departments, then the likelihood of mistakes inevitably increases. We see this with other government departments, such as social care. Indeed, we have in reality seen it in firearms licensing, hence one particular force's efforts to over-compensate. And then there's the delays in licensing. Again, it's only a matter of time before someone who has become unsuitable to possess firearms does something disastrous when, with a timely renewal this would have been picked up. What's more, if Rupert Singen-Smythe has got a couple of invitations to shoot posh pheasants and can't get his certificate in time, does he forego the days or take a risk? He can borrow a gun from Ponsonby Jones in his office after all. It's only like forgetting your MOT when it's due...

The lackadaisical implementation of firearms licensing is a disgrace that will and has caused disasters. And they hide behind either the public's apathy or views that people shouldn't have guns anyway to camouflage their failings. And when the poo does hit the fan, it's not their fault but the shooter's.

 

[Greenmist]

They used that reasoning wast time they increased the fees

I don't believe the police did, a certain membership organisation suggested if the fees increased we should get a better service

 

[Greenmist]

Exactly what form does “push for that“ take? tea and biscuits with the home secretary?

Or a national newspaper advert spelling out the delays and difficulties in the process, like GPs not participating in the process and no fixed fee.

But not the current home secretary, focus on the shadow cabinet like last time

 

[Greenmist]

paying the police for 9 hours minimum wage labour to process the application which I’d imagine takes a lot longer

I'll question that time scale, in this day and age with all technology available, I think it could be done with a few clicks of a mouse.

 

[Liveonce]

I think that perhaps the safety angle should be explored more. If the various forces are not properly staffing their licensing departments, then the likelihood of mistakes inevitably increases. We see this with other government departments, such as social care. Indeed, we have in reality seen it in firearms licensing, hence one particular force's efforts to over-compensate. And then there's the delays in licensing. Again, it's only a matter of time before someone who has become unsuitable to possess firearms does something disastrous when, with a timely renewal this would have been picked up. What's more, if Rupert Singen-Smythe has got a couple of invitations to shoot posh pheasants and can't get his certificate in time, does he forego the days or take a risk? He can borrow a gun from Ponsonby Jones in his office after all. It's only like forgetting your MOT when it's due...

The lackadaisical implementation of firearms licensing is a disgrace that will and has caused disasters. And they hide behind either the public's apathy or views that people shouldn't have guns anyway to camouflage their failings. And when the poo does hit the fan, it's not their fault but the shooter's.

Never a truer word said than in your last paragraph.

 

[Jeff8861]

I'll question that time scale, in this day and age with all technology available, I think it could be done with a few clicks of a mouse.

Some are done with a few clicks of the mouse however only when the form is checked background checks completed land check completed gp report completed referees contacted correct funds received . However in the real world its not as straight forward as that.
So many on here posting third hand rumour fuelled my mate said this happened to my mate who knows a bloke. It doesn't help anyone if folk don't know the process, don't guess, it doesn't help anyone.

 

[Husky]

@Conor O'Gorman I am a member of BASC, all your posts are in relation to England and Wales, do you have any data for Scotland ?
After all you are the British Association not the English and Welsh Association.

 

[Greenmist]

Some are done with a few clicks of the mouse however only when the form is checked background checks completed land check completed gp report completed referees contacted correct funds received . However in the real world its not as straight forward as that.
So many on here posting third hand rumour fuelled my mate said this happened to my mate who knows a bloke. It doesn't help anyone if folk don't know the process, don't guess, it doesn't help anyone.

Correct funds received - Payment is taken when received, even faster with BACS
GP report is the responsibility of the applicant (mine has just taken 14 weeks)
Form is the product of the police, out of date and overly complicated, it could be made so much simpler and if moved online even easier (even in its current form it doesn't take much to read through)
Referees, thats two phone calls for confirmation.
Other than for initial grants no need for physical land check, just a confirmation call to the land owner
You forgot security checks, again, only necessary for initial grants
The fact of the matter is, the entire system isn't fit for purpose, or fit for this century, get pulled over for a brake light not working and see how much information about you is available with a single radio call in the middle of the night.
A simple fact (from a police officer, not a third hand account), the police don't want to do the job, but nor do them want to give it up,

 

[25 Sharps]

I don't believe the police did, a certain membership organisation suggested if the fees increased we should get a better service

The 2015 review and consultation was carried out by a working group of police, shooting organisations and government agencies.

 

[Klenchblaize]

It’s clear to me from my FEO’s parting comment/guidance to “send it (the certificate) back if anything is not as it should be” that there’s an acceptance their colleagues, who enter and print Certificates, will often get the technical detail wrong. The primary focus and resourcing being - as it should be - that of establishing Applicant suitability.

The FEO guidance was spot on as there were multiple errors including a failure to remove rifles that had been disposed of prior to renewal but I can’t fault the responce that included allowing an 11th-hour minor variation as part of the corrections & reprint.

K

 

[timbrayford]

Does the current one guarantee it for five years?

Well that rather is the point, past health issues are irrelevant as that time has gone and really what the police would like to know is if you will develop some issue over the forthcoming duration of the certificate. Apart from the marker on the GP records the rest of the new medical stuff serves no useful purpose.

 

[timbrayford]

I applied for my license a few months ago (no update yet) so a few things I would add:
On the cost side I was surprised to hear the rate has been the same since 2015, I would’ve assumed a natural inflation so you’re already at £100 by this year - and
personally I would be happy to pay more than that as it’s only paying the police for 9 hours minimum wage labour to process the application which I’d imagine takes a lot longer, and in my opinion tax payers shouldn’t foot the rest of the bill for something I want to do.
The timescale also isn’t an issue for me personally as I can’t afford any paid stalks (don’t book a wedding and get into stalking at the same time!) but the communication should be better to at least give an idea of how long it will take as you are paying for a service.

Would you expect a driving licence or a passport to be similarly costed? And what about benefit claims, should they also reflect the cost to the taxpayer with the possibility that the processing cost exceeds the size of the claim?

 

[Jeff8861]

Correct funds received - Payment is taken when received, even faster with BACS
GP report is the responsibility of the applicant (mine has just taken 14 weeks)
Form is the product of the police, out of date and overly complicated, it could be made so much simpler and if moved online even easier (even in its current form it doesn't take much to read through)
Referees, thats two phone calls for confirmation.
Other than for initial grants no need for physical land check, just a confirmation call to the land owner
You forgot security checks, again, only necessary for initial grants
The fact of the matter is, the entire system isn't fit for purpose, or fit for this century, get pulled over for a brake light not working and see how much information about you is available with a single radio call in the middle of the night.
A simple fact (from a police officer, not a third hand account), the police don't want to do the job, but nor do them want to give it up,

A number of your points are incorrect.
Some forces do have an online form 201.
Radio check only checks local system and pnc. It doesn't go into detail it doesn't need to so no Intel from other forces and no special branch check. Theses are required for grants and renewals
Not all land checks need to be physically completed but some do especially if its new bit of land. One police officer in 40,000 has said they don't want to do it, again irrelevant across England Wales there are virtually no officers within licensing departments. I would suspect based on my expirence there may be around ten cops nationally. If it was that straightforward they would change it. Steps are in place to try and eliminate some aspects of the process. However grants and renewals are only a portion of the workload of licensing departments.