UK Government Launches UK Deer Management Strategy Consultation

[baguio]

I have to say, with no disrespect intended, that this remark is the biggest joke I have heard for a long time. There are areas where NO deer are shot. Like the gold course neighboring one small area I have, which is also adjacent to an 800 acre Forestry commission wood, where NOTHING to my mind is being done. Nothing to see 50 to 60 Fallow on there early in the morning. To pin the blame on any professional or semi professional deer stalker for allowing the deer to infect the surrounding areas is absolute rubbish.

IYO Malc. Not in a lot of other people's. Fallow are hard as hell to manage at the best of times. The smaller deer not so much. If people are going on to permissions where they're seeing dozens of munties there are too many munties! Sorry but that's my opinion and you don't have to like it. Munties should be shoot on sight and not kept in high densities for trophy paying clients!
My comment "Those deer are leaking out of that permission and filing the rest of the countryside. That's what is causing this whole problem!" Wasn't just aimed at some professionals (Certainly not all) but everywhere where deer numbers are not being kept at sensible levels which is surely what this consolation is looking into? Something should be being done. Saying that you have a deer manager doesn't mean that something is being done either! One for the freezer is not managing deer!

 

[Klenchblaize]

Saying that you have a deer manager doesn't mean that something is being done either! One for the freezer is not managing deer!

Never a truer word spoken!

It may be uncomfortable for many of us but if we are to be truly honest with ourselves I suspect there are very few part-time deerstalkers who couldn’t do a great deal more than is currently the case.

So let’s ask ourselves why we are not shooting greater numbers?

I suspect DEFRA’s consultation is in part intended to establish the answer to the above.

K

 

[bottletopbill]

Seems to be getting nasty on here lets all calm down The antis will love all this rows between us.
We all need to get the numbers down regardless of being a professional stalker/paying to stalk or having your own perms.
Sorry one for the freezer is not deer managing deer ( ON AVERAGE TAKES 6 PLUS PER OUTING) This pro stalker is always willing to help other,s into stalking as is sikamalc both can hold there heads high and do not slate others off.

Why pay contactors,

 

[sikamalc]

I am well aware of the trouble Fallow numbers are causing. But for you or anyone to lay claim to any professional stalker being responsible for their ground leaking out thousands of deer is ridiculous.
There are places now where Fallow have free reign, simply because they are not culled. Many places in Essex, have them in their gardens and even on the roundabouts grazing. There are large numbers of places where they are not culled and never have been, probably never will be either. To say that this is down to professional stalkers not shooting enough is rubbish.
We shoot as many Fallow as we can on all our ground, we hit the does hard from 1st November to Christmas as this is the best time to get on top of them. But adjacent to the estate I manage is 800 acres of FC which no one is doing anything about. We applied for the lease some years back, when there was talk of the FC selling land off.

Guess what, they wanted ME TO PAY THEM, £100 for a deer. And, wait for it, only 20 bucks, 10 Roe, 10 Fallow bucks between the 1st April to end of October. In an 800 acre wood that is heavily used by the public during the vast part of the summer months. Nothing to do with the doe cull. It was and is a TOTAL joke with the FC. Needless to say I told them where to stick it. As far as I am aware, no one is managing it now, and situation has now become worse over the years.

I have a small parcel of land adjoining this forest, with 2 rutting stands on it. At the interview with the forest manager, FC stalker at the time, and the land agent, I asked what other species of deer might we see and shoot.
This is completely true.
The answer was they had heard rumours of Muntjac, but never seen any. True, I have never seen any on my adjacent land. But what about other species, I asked. There are no others present, was the response. Oh I think there is, I told them. Sika. What since when, they responded. Since about 6 months ago when a hind was shot on my area.

The response was laughable, well you need to call us first before you shoot, was the reply. That's 100% true, and I had 3 other colleagues with me to verify it. The government need to get their own house in order first. Starting with the FAC fiasco first.

So don't start blaming other stalkers for what is occuring. Talk about stabbing your own in the back!

What the government have also forgotten, is the lack of deer taken during the pandemic. Recreational stalkers lost some 6 months of stalking in the winter. This has also made an impact in the rise in deer numbers. There are many factors as to why numbers of deer have increased, and its not down to anyone issue. Its a whole raft of issues, but as I say, starting to blame other stalkers is not really what is needed.

 

[25 Sharps]

Given we hear a lot on this site about the likelyhood of a nation-wide cull undertaken by Government vetted and engaged “contractors”, how is this to be coordinated throughout the Home Counties where there are multiple parcels of land and given of owners/custodians that will be outraged at the thought of uninvited armed deer slayers roaming their meadows and paddocks?

K

Well it they couldn’t force people to join the badger cull, I think I read they needed 70% coverage for the licence to be granted to a zone, so they won’t be able to do it for deer.

And we all know how well that cull was received!

 

[baguio]

Malc, you’re taking this too personally. You might be doing the best job possible but not everyone is. If they were, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I help out on the fallow on an estate near me where we hit them hard until they often sit just off the boundary in peace. Nothing (or at least, not enough) is being done all around us. Plenty of high seats but no one ever sitting in them. Come darkness they trott over to our side. We’re all responsible but there’s no doubt that some are a lot more responsible than others.

 

[VSS]

Given we hear a lot on this site about the likelyhood of a nation-wide cull undertaken by Government vetted and engaged “contractors”, how is this to be coordinated throughout the Home Counties where there are multiple parcels of land and given of owners/custodians that will be outraged at the thought of uninvited armed deer slayers roaming their meadows and paddocks?

K

I should say that that is one of the principal purposes of this consultation. The owners of all those little parcels of land ought to be responding. If, subsequently, we do end up in a situation where government contractors are sent in to cull (and I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that) then the landowners have at least had the opportunity to let their views be known. They will also have been forewarned, so can forestall any compulsory cull by making their own arrangements with a stalker that they know and trust, even if their preferred option would have been to leave the deer alone.

 

[308tikka]

Munties should be shoot on sight and not kept in high densities for trophy paying clients!

100%.

We all know some guides keep that large munty buck untouched until the right customer comes along, paying ridiculous fees especially to get ‘all six’.

Shoot them on sight when safe backstops are presented.

I wonder if the DEFRA review banned trophy fees for Muntjac or even guided stalks, would it force managers to have actual plans, with people of ability - some might even say, mandated minimum standards !

 

[308tikka]

But adjacent to the estate I manage is 800 acres of FC which no one is doing anything about. We applied for the lease some years back, when there was talk of the FC selling land off.

Guess what, they wanted ME TO PAY THEM, £100 for a deer. And, wait for it, only 20 bucks, 10 Roe, 10 Fallow bucks between the 1st April to end of October. In an 800 acre wood that is heavily used by the public during the vast part of the summer months.

The FC need to start paying stalkers not charging them. They are as bad as any permission hoarder. One area Im familiar with adjacent to land I shoot on is unmanaged. Lotsnof muntjac, getting chased by urban dogwalkers who drive there to park up, and mountain bikers who care for nobody. Nobody in their right mind would take up this lease and pay for it, never mind leave seats up. FC is one of the problems. The deer need shot.

What the government have also forgotten, is the lack of deer taken during the pandemic. Recreational stalkers lost some 6 months of stalking in the winter. This has also made an impact in the rise in deer numbers.

Correct but I wont hold my breath in central government admitting to mistakes in covid measures.

 

[Nikko]

Guess what, they wanted ME TO PAY THEM, £100 for a deer. And, wait for it, only 20 bucks, 10 Roe, 10 Fallow bucks between the 1st April to end of October. In an 800 acre wood that is heavily used by the public during the vast part of the summer months. Nothing to do with the doe cull. It was and is a TOTAL joke with the FC. Needless to say I told them where to stick it. As far as I am aware, no one is managing it now, and situation has now become worse over the years.

All FC permissions have minimum culls now and you can shoot more.

 

[bottletopbill]

Sussexsteve and Sikamalc help other's into deer stalking and gain experience in stalking
If we all done the same instead of given antis fuel to fire and all work to solve the deer problem's and try to educate the No land owner's as to the problem's they are causing.
But reading some of the remarks I can see why,

 

[StephenToast]

You already can shoot them out of season if they are damaging crops!

See my response to Porkchop's question.

 

[User00053]

I should say that that is one of the principal purposes of this consultation. The owners of all those little parcels of land ought to be responding. If, subsequently, we do end up in a situation where government contractors are sent in to cull (and I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that) then the landowners have at least had the opportunity to let their views be known. They will also have been forewarned, so can forestall any compulsory cull by making their own arrangements with a stalker that they know and trust, even if their preferred option would have been to leave the deer alone.

For me the covers it all and the crux of the the whole thing, land owners been the key to this first and foremost, not a person with a rifle until measures in place. How that would ever work is probably gods sweet mystery without some form of commission with powers to help the job along and maybe kick start in places.
Lot of well intentioned stalkers don’t have the time and equipment needed to be effective, species wise surely the bigger species in theory and practice can be targeted and reduced.
Think some large land owners need to start thinking they may need to rethink who pays who and that they need help or employ more deer Cullers with new powers and targets.
For sure the papers will have some interesting articles to write, but today’s news, tomorrow’s chip wrappers or was and thought they tasted better.

 

[slider]

Given we hear a lot on this site about the likelyhood of a nation-wide cull undertaken by Government vetted and engaged “contractors”, how is this to be coordinated throughout the Home Counties where there are multiple parcels of land and given of owners/custodians that will be outraged at the thought of uninvited armed deer slayers roaming their meadows and paddocks?

K

Much as it is the only thing that will really help I just don't see Govt engaged contractors happening.

Up here NatureScot have had these powers for years and although they have threatened action they have never actually done anything (to my knowledge).

The political ramifications of turning Bambi killer loose on the much more populous areas of England would be immense

 

[User00053]

Much as it is the only thing that will really help I just don't see Govt engaged contractors happening.

Up here NatureScot have had these powers for years and although they have threatened action they have never actually done anything (to my knowledge).

The political ramifications of turning Bambi killer loose on the much more populous areas of England would be immense

The deer commission culled some decent numbers along the way and were involved in counts, tagging among other things. Think the general spin would be assisting land owners who struggle with their existing culls due to population increases for bla, bla, reasons. A here to help scenario where invited by large farms and Estates perhaps.
New powers to help all involved large or small so really just increased culling in areas where it as been done for years.
Can be surprising what can happen if new motivation is given to land owners when help is offered, has been my experience.

 

[bottletopbill]

But what about the estates that say no to shooting and we have to sit and watch them as they know it is safe and taunt shooter's.
So how are they going to get past that as I know a large estate that foxes are welcome. Pheasants walk around as they own the place trees have never been cut plus stacks of rabbits. and the best Pidgeon roost I have ever seen but ( you cant touch that to every animal including the grey's)

 

[Hayduke]

Increased powers is
Divide and rule

 

[Klenchblaize]

Divide and rule!
Increased powers is B/S
This is a ploy to increase state intervention, drive a wedge between stalker and landowner. And increase barriers to entry and deer management (mandatory qualifications, no lead, greater bureaucracy).

I don’t disagree and indeed the fact the BDS are stamping their feet with frustration at not being directly consulted only lends weight to the fear there is already a defined policy that just needs the post consultation closing date rubber stamp.

That said even if our worst fears come to pass the fact remains someone has to be behind all those additional triggers and given of an increased rate of fire.

K

 

[User00053]

But what about the estates that say no to shooting and we have to sit and watch them as they know it is safe and taunt shooter's.
So how are they going to get past that as I know a large estate that foxes are welcome. Pheasants walk around as they own the place trees have never been cut plus stacks of rabbits. and the best Pidgeon roost I have ever seen but ( you cant touch that to every animal including the grey's)

Bound to be places that don’t want to contribute to the greater good but suspect whatever happens overall numbers can be reduced, given the facts

 

[bottletopbill]

All stalkers should be involved and not just for financial gain (except pro stalkers or there clients who take care of the most deer).