Barrel tuners I mean probably almost completely useless

[ColinBr]

Honestly the truth be told i'm pretty open minded on the matter, but I think i would like to see proof of concept before i invested in one. The only thing that slightly frustrates me that people seem to see proof in very little or no relevant data... But I guess people see what they want to see and we all like pretty little clover leafs. Anyway whatever rocks your boat I suppose?

You could try 1 of those rubber plug things as a cheap way of giving it a go.

I don't do competitions anymore, so don't see the need to go down that route.

Unless you plan on getting serious I wouldn't bother

 

[Utectok]

You could try 1 of those rubber plug things as a cheap way of giving it a go.

I don't do competitions anymore, so don't see the need to go down that route.

Unless you plan on getting serious I wouldn't bother

I can't see it making any difference to my life and the type of shooting I do. I am slightly amazed how the reloading and long distance shooting myths persist in spite of the evidence but it seems if you rattle that cage people get quite upset. Back to making fly reels I think for me lol

 

[Lateral]

I don't accept the powder or seating changes can make a difference, unless I can prove it statistically. Hence I only fired one type of bullet in the entire life of one of my 260 Rems.
Regards
JCS

Well you're entitled to your opinion, even though you know for a FACT, that changes in powder or seating depth, can, and do make a difference, whether you can prove it, or not !

 

[Muir]

Honestly the truth be told i'm pretty open minded on the matter, but I think i would like to see proof of concept before i invested in one. The only thing that slightly frustrates me that people seem to see proof in very little or no relevant data... But I guess people see what they want to see and we all like pretty little clover leafs. Anyway whatever rocks your boat I suppose?

I also have little faith in screw-on barrel tuners but, I won't trash them until I have tried one myself. Your initial post shows a prejudice toward them and your insistence that other people go out and fire multiple long strings of shots to convince you of their worth is asking someone to do your heavy lifting. You should buy one, wring it out, and give your honest opinion backed by whatever data you think supports it. Or at least email that Cortina person to and ask him tell you the testing regimen they put the product through and see if that convinces you. He may have shot his video showing three shot groups but I'm guessing that his R&D work burned far more than that as he plays to a critical crowd. ~Muir

 

[Utectok]

I also have little faith in screw-on barrel tuners but, I won't trash them until I have tried one myself. Your initial post shows a prejudice toward them and your insistence that other people go out and fire multiple long strings of shots to convince you of their worth is asking someone to do your heavy lifting. You should buy one, wring it out, and give your honest opinion backed by whatever data you think supports it. Or at least email that Cortina person to and ask him tell you the testing regimen they put the product through and see if that convinces you. He may have shot his video showing three shot groups but I'm guessing that his R&D work burned far more than that as he plays to a critical crowd. ~Muir

That is fair comment as ever @Muir cheers

 

[308tikka]

Picture taken from MBE engineering’s Facebook page:
View attachment 287645

Fully agree about the practice though - most stalkers I see at BDS range days struggle to get inside an inch, they will find no advantage to this, you need to be shooting sub 0.5” repeatedly to possibly see any benefit IMHO.

Ben

Fair enough to the gunsmith but I reckon he was shaking his head and thinking of the dosh when he fitted it. I think it solves a problem that doesnt exist (outside of niche target shooting competitions).

For people trying to move from 3”@100yds to sub 1” it wont help them. They arent good enough.

For those at 1” or less, why bother for deer ? Or fox. Or any other species you would shoot under 300yds.

 

[404Boar]

A little article from a respected gunsmith and target shooter.

 

[Mungo]

but then, even if you ran an experiment, how could you conclude the improvement in grouping wasn't simply down to psychology of the shooter...in fact, you'd have to make sure the shooter was not aware whether the rifle had a tuner on it, placebo experiments, etc.

Well indeed.

Double blind trial and all that.

If it’s good enough for medicine…

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Fair enough to the gunsmith but I reckon he was shaking his head and thinking of the dosh when he fitted it. I think it solves a problem that doesnt exist (outside of niche target shooting competitions).

For people trying to move from 3”@100yds to sub 1” it wont help them. They arent good enough.

For those at 1” or less, why bother for deer ? Or fox. Or any other species you would shoot under 300yds.

All I would say regarding deer stalking is yes 1” or less is fine providing you’re inside 300 yards on a deer, however under the right circumstances I may not stay within that distance, so having a 1/2” or less rifle is definitely helpful in making sure the bullet goes exactly where it should.

The last red hind I took was at a hair under 400 yards on a fairly steep downhill shot where I couldn’t get closer. I wouldn’t have been as comfortable taking that shot knowing my rifle was a 1MOA rifle, but, as I know that rifle and load are sub 1/2” and I was in a v. Stable natural position with a rear bag and bipod, I was confident in taking the shot - needless to say but the deer was well hit with a big hole through the heart.

Some people are using the accuracy that the tuner may give you so I wouldn’t say it has no use for stalking, just maybe isn’t something most people will benefit from. It’s definitely something I would have on my hill rifle if I was made to use factory ammo rather than my hand loads so as to wring a bit more accuracy out of them.

Ben

 

[Klenchblaize]

When I install my Wildcat moderator on the 6PPC I’m gonna try it with and without a custom silicone rear support O-ring/donut.

Result to follow

K

 

[JTO]

The more I think about it the more I am beginning to think barrel tuners are completely (well nearly) useless.
To put this in context I’ve never used one but the way I’ve seen them used is with a series of 3-2 shot groups the an adjustment, which clearly means nothing. Also the adjustable thread moves the tuner almost nowhere…
I do think a barrel weight might help groups in some cases… that sort of makes sense to me but I’ve not seen any real good testing of tuners that proves anything. I believe Brian Litz did some testing and came to the same conclusion but I’ve not read his book?
What’s the SD massive think?

Perhaps this thread would be more appropriate on UKV.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Do special forces snipers use them?

 

[Lateral]

Thing is I don’t accept that either. The testing to verify these changes actually make a difference is very rarely done. A few three shot groups and ohh that’s lots better is the usual way load development happens.

But it's common reloading practice to load powder weights between a recommended "minimum, & maximum" weight, in increments from 0.2gn, to 1gn, or even higher, depending on case capacity.

I would assume anyone reloading their own ammunition, would do this to some extent, although I have on occasion found the minimum load shot a touching group, so it wasn't worth spending anymore time on.


How do you find what powder weight gives you an acceptable group ?

 

[Twodogs]

Do special forces snipers use them?

I can only speak from ‘my day’ which was some considerable time ago, ahh the good old L42A1, but all snipers used a higher quality ammunition, RG Green spot, IIRC.

 

[Ronin]

We were on a visit to the USA and called into the Trinidad school of trades gunsmithing course, the head allowed us to stay there the whole day and one of the lectures we sat through was about these Browning adjusters sadly I cannot remember the details other than the lecturer did say that they worked.

That will have been Speedy (Thomas ) Gonzales who’s rifle work is the thing of legend

He is a very knowledgable guy

The Browning Boss system tuner was one of the first tuners that really worked

Erik Cortina - has made his own tuner that is a stage beyond the Boss system - this works too

I have built several rifles for clients who use this to fine tune loads and they really do work

Perhaps Erik should do five shot groups rather than three - he is an extremely talented shot - no snake oil

 

[stu439]

I shoot 600yd/1000 benchrest and Fclass at 300 to 1000yds. When Berger bullets became unavailable I bought lapua scenar L,s. With the help of my tuner(which I purchased to help shrink the groups with this load) I got these to shoot as good as I had the bergers shooting without a tuner repeatedly over a series of competitions. Which was a marked improvement over groups shot with same load without tuner.
I recently tried my Berger load again and shot a 36mm 1.4 inches 5 shot group at 600yds. In this sport where the difference between 1st and 5th can be measured in mm every available tool or advantage is explored. If my tuner had not considerably improved my groups it would no longer adorn my rifle.
As is I would be loath to change anything.
Is this satisfactory proof?
For me yes but seeing/doing is the only way for some.
Hope this answers your OP
Kind regards Stu

 

[stu439]

That will have been Speedy (Thomas ) Gonzales who’s rifle work is the thing of legend

He is a very knowledgable guy

The Browning Boss system tuner was one of the first tuners that really worked

Erik Cortina - has made his own tuner that is a stage beyond the Boss system - this works too

I have built several rifles for clients who use this to fine tune loads and they really do work

Perhaps Erik should do five shot groups rather than three - he is an extremely talented shot - no snake oil

Eric won the Euro,s at Bisley 2022 definitely no snake oil

 

[Utectok]

Brian litz on barrel tuners
“In a word, he did not get convincing, repeatable data that showed tuners worked in all test cases.

My opinion does not represent the shooting community. But tuners definitely stay close to the type of practices that are easily affected by confirmation bias: eg, shoot a sweep of the tuner, pick the best appearing node, and if it seems to continue shooting well you just leave it there and believe it’s working.“

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/bryan-litz-on-barrel-tuners.4076870/[/URL

 

[Ronin]

Bryan’s opinion falls on the other side of what many have found (conformed) to work

Doesn’t make him right or the others wrong

 

[Utectok]

Bryan’s opinion falls on the other side of what many have found (conformed) to work

Doesn’t make him right or the others wrong

Indeed but it is interesting anyway and questioning things is a good approach sometimes.