Poaching

[308tikka]

Could not prove suffering, as we did not see it being killed, sheep was hit on head with metal bar and then bled out, if first blow knocked sheep unconscious then no suffering- person was not British and stated it is how they kill them on his parents farm. The only thing I could get to stick was not being a licensed slaughter man

Theft aside, surely no offence in home slaughter for personal consumption

 

[Stalker62]

I really don’t understand why police will not tackle poaching of deer with rifles.

Not sure that statement is entirely fair.

If I may just chuck in a curve ball?

If a "suspect" is armed/believed to be armed, that is a whole new level for pain for the Old Bill.

It becomes an "armed operation" (spontaneous notwithstanding), this involves all manner of briefings, risk assessment, authorisations and deployment of sufficient armed officers to 'overwhelm' any perceived threat.

The reality is, there are probably insufficient armed resources on duty, to attend with and deal with 'poaching of deer with rifles' - usually at night.

It is not satisfactory, but it is a reality.

In the same vein.

I still cringe when I recall the case of the pigeon shooter, arrested by an armed Police team, who were responding to claims of 'man with a gun'.



I seem to remember that, Gamekeepers subsequently became involved in 'training' armed Police units.



Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

 

[Jon P]

Theft aside, surely no offence in home slaughter for personal consumption

He was sharing meat with people from different households so not personal consumption.

 

[308tikka]

Not sure that statement is entirely fair.

If I may just chuck in a curve ball?

If a "suspect" is armed/believed to be armed, that is a whole new level for pain for the Old Bill.

It becomes an "armed operation" (spontaneous notwithstanding), this involves all manner of briefings, risk assessment, authorisations and deployment of sufficient armed officers to 'overwhelm' any perceived threat.

The reality is, there are probably insufficient armed resources on duty, to attend with and deal with 'poaching of deer with rifles' - usually at night.

It is not satisfactory, but it is a reality.

In the same vein.

I still cringe when I recall the case of the pigeon shooter, arrested by an armed Police team, who were responding to claims of 'man with a gun'.

View attachment 288585

I seem to remember that, Gamekeepers subsequently became involved in 'training' armed Police units.



Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

He was sharing meat with people from different households so not personal consumption.

And you knew this at the time he was slaughtering in his garden?

I find it laughable that I can give venison away, but not lamb or pork killed by my hand.

Anyway, theft is theft, he admitted it but not successfully prosecuted for that? Do you see where public confidence is eroded?

 

[Jon P]

And you knew this at the time he was slaughtering in his garden?

I find it laughable that I can give venison away, but not lamb or pork killed by my hand.

Anyway, theft is theft, he admitted it but not successfully prosecuted for that? Do you see where public confidence is eroded?

Neighbours phoned police as they witnessed the slaughter, police went to house, half the sheep Is on a BBQ other half is being eaten by people finishing off there party from the night before, so caught in the act. Police then contacted me.

Theft is a Police matter so I can’t answer for them.

 

[Callumc]

Only a small fraction of poachers are betting on results of dog performances from the likely crowd.
It's not about money in most cases.
Some men still marvel at the abilty of a dog doing what nature intended it to do.
20+ yrs ago running a dog on mammals was not illegal (poaching was).
There were plenty of men legally hunting with dogs on land with permission.
Half the young shavers at it now, although doing illegally, are still only interested in the ability of the dog, shame they have no consideration for farming and hunting seasons.

Thabk God someone said it, sick of hearing that lads allegedly film it to have gambling nights at the boozer. It's about dogs running 99.9 percent of the time

 

[243 fallow]

Agreed but marble throwers dont leave the bird minus head. Ive been at this game to long to listen to hearsay from pikey haters. Gamekeeper have been finding headless poults since game rearing started and less now than in the middle to late part of the 20th centaury. The trouble is that a lot of shooting folk are no more than paying to kill and no little of the countryside and modern gamekeepers are often nothing more than glorified poultry rearer's who are the same and dont understand an owl has taken the heads of the poults, so they conclude its humans.

What are you going on about ? It’s not just a few headless poults , a modern gamekeeper nowadays has better tools and is better equipped than his ancestors would’ve been, end of the day we’ve always reared birds to put over guns on a shoot day, it doesn’t bother me that they cant tell a blackbird from a crow or know what trees or crops are growing in the fields as long as there enjoying themselves then as far as I’m concerned that’s what it’s all about, iv no doubt you use a rifle to shoot deer and not a spear or a homemade bow and arrow ? Until you’ve been in a pen that’s covered in other people’s boot prints ball bearings on the floor and hundreds of headless poults on the floor the gate left wide open, electric fencer and battery stolen and the evidence and bravado on one of the many poaching groups on FB then you’ll understand that it’s not tawny owls or any other predators!!!!

 

[levigsp]

What are you going on about ? It’s not just a few headless poults , a modern gamekeeper nowadays has better tools and is better equipped than his ancestors would’ve been, end of the day we’ve always reared birds to put over guns on a shoot day, it doesn’t bother me that they cant tell a blackbird from a crow or know what trees or crops are growing in the fields as long as there enjoying themselves then as far as I’m concerned that’s what it’s all about, iv no doubt you use a rifle to shoot deer and not a spear or a homemade bow and arrow ? Until you’ve been in a pen that’s covered in other people’s boot prints ball bearings on the floor and hundreds of headless poults on the floor the gate left wide open, electric fencer and battery stolen and the evidence and bravado on one of the many poaching groups on FB then you’ll understand that it’s not tawny owls or any other predators!!!!

If you knew anything about me or my experiences, you would not have written the above. I am saying no more than to say this; if any keeper allows poachers the hours they would need to be in a pen catapulting pheasant poults during the hours of darkness, they simply do not deserve their jobs.! I am removing myself from this conversation as quite frankly its getting into the realms of fantasy.

 

[@theroedeerguy]

Fife seems to have it bad again at the moment.

During the recent hard frosts, I drove one morning from Lochgelly to Kinross round the east side of loch Leven, and must have seen at least 10 roe carcasses just lying out in the fields. Couldn’t tell what had brought them down, but friends says its dog men out of Dundee.

Did you report it to the police?

 

[@theroedeerguy]

I really don’t understand why police will not tackle poaching of deer with rifles.

It’s any easy prosecution. Either illegal possession of firearms in which case mandatory porridge time. Or breach of FAC conditions- ie use of firearms on land where they have no lawful permission, again at a minimum means immediate revocation of Certificates etc.

Once they have been arrested, many will be in possession of mobile phones and vehicles which have some of GPS tracking - again this can be analysed to show where they have been.

The converse is police not turning up to firearms offences - not good for PR.

I think you’ll find that they will tackle it if it gets reported and has credible evidence.

 

[Mungo]

Did you report it to the police?

I didn’t.

Given how many and how conspicuous they were, it seemed likely that the landowners and local keepers were aware, and were best placed to do this.

I’m not sure Fife plod would really pay much attention to a random motorist calling about dead deer on land that wasn’t theirs!

 

[@theroedeerguy]

I didn’t.

Given how many and how conspicuous they were, it seemed likely that the landowners and local keepers were aware, and were best placed to do this.

I’m not sure Fife plod would really pay much attention to a random motorist calling about dead deer on land that wasn’t theirs!

This is exactly why the police have difficulty investigating wildlife crime.
If you see anything suspicious don’t leave it to others, report it.

 

[243 fallow]

If you knew anything about me or my experiences, you would not have written the above. I am saying no more than to say this; if any keeper allows poachers the hours they would need to be in a pen catapulting pheasant poults during the hours of darkness, they simply do not deserve their jobs.! I am removing myself from this conversation as quite frankly its getting into the realms of fantasy.

You’ve got no clue at all, even a keeper has to go to bed at some stage, yes remove yourself from the thread and stick to deer hunting with spears !!!

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Not sure that statement is entirely fair.

If I may just chuck in a curve ball?

If a "suspect" is armed/believed to be armed, that is a whole new level for pain for the Old Bill.

It becomes an "armed operation" (spontaneous notwithstanding), this involves all manner of briefings, risk assessment, authorisations and deployment of sufficient armed officers to 'overwhelm' any perceived threat.

The reality is, there are probably insufficient armed resources on duty, to attend with and deal with 'poaching of deer with rifles' - usually at night.

It is not satisfactory, but it is a reality.

In the same vein.

I still cringe when I recall the case of the pigeon shooter, arrested by an armed Police team, who were responding to claims of 'man with a gun'.

View attachment 288585

I seem to remember that, Gamekeepers subsequently became involved in 'training' armed Police units.



Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

Firearms actually locked someone up? That's usually down to locals

 

[Pete6.5]

One of the keepers I know has well hidden trail cams on pen doors and easy routes in that pings pictures and video to his phone so he knows what's going on. Also good for that fox that's walking around the pen looking for a way in.

 

[JTO]

One of the keepers I know has well hidden trail cams on pen doors and easy routes in that pings pictures and video to his phone so he knows what's going on. Also good for that fox that's walking around the pen looking for a way in.

I've had 6 trail cams stolen.

 

[Pete6.5]

Put them 20 foot plus up out of eye line

 

[NickJ]

https://www.lep.co.uk/news/crime/lancashire-police-operation-cracks-down-on-deer-poaching-in-county-beauty-spot-3505613

A wee bit more info for Mr Blades

We are very lucky that here in Lancashire we have a well resourced, trained, experienced and motivated Rural Crime Team. Their response and arrest rates are for all to see. A massive difference over the past 5 years.

Compared to my experience with Cumbria and, to a lesser extent West Yorkshire and Police Scotland the county constabulary are to be applauded.

 

[bogtrotter]

I've never heard that in my entire life.

Nor me headless poultry are usually a fox or more likely a vixen teaching cubs to hunt
What do you have on. Your release pens
Foxgrids tunnels or both if just tunnels cubs can get in and out also check the bottom of the pen takes very little for a cub to squeeze
through.

 

[bogtrotter]

If the Police won't prosecute bring a private prosecution ( or is that a Scots law only thing) it will cost you though.
I used to work on an estate where every case
of poaching went to court regardless of how minor a large number of those were private
Prosecutions some we won some we lost.
but it was a great deterrent