Fully trained deer dogs

New Avon Arms
hendrix's rifle said:
I doubt the average UK stalker will be the target of the sale. I dare say someone who's a pro/full time contractor on a limited time frame would. Much like the forestry commission, before employment you must have a trained dog or be able to source.

I'll give you that about a poor handler though
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I completely agree Hendrix my questioning on the subject was regarding the average Joe.
 
James0586 said:
I’m not questioning your ability as a handler/trainer so please don’t assume that I am but how do you come up with I don’t have any idea what I am on about?

I merely questioned your process and by pointing out you could still do it with an older dog and presumably give them a second chance in life and when you spoke about money I merely pointed out that you could get a faster return with less cost to the end user that has nothing to do with doing a job properly!

There are several scenarios that we can bounce back and fourth and we may or may not agree on but You mentioned a leg shot deer and a dog being able to “handle it” so what about this Scenario:

A Deer shot in the leg, runs and travels onto next doors ground where you cannot follow. Trained a dog from a puppy for 2 years to do what exactly in this instance?
(Track across field, reach the boundary and return to the truck unsuccessful)

As you said “any dog can find a deer 20 - 50 yards in thick cover!” And that’s exactly my point in what the average Joe UK deer stalker would need.

As you agreed with Loler UK “very few people have enough work for them or the patience to work one”

Which is my point exactly.
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Once the animal crosses the boundary, you can not follow without permission, end of!

A leg shot animal will lay up quickly usually within 100-200m, now the key is not to push the beast over the boundary in the first place!

That animal left overnight and tracked the next day greatly increases the chance of getting the animal with a trained dog.

The law and boundaries are 1 of the reasons i am now retired from tracking!
 
I have had BMH dogs for tracking for 20 plus years. Well before the BMH club was formed and the tracking clubs that have sprung up since.
I can never remember seeing any fully trained deer dog ever for sale, but then I never looked. But I agree with Lee, in that it would be thousands to buy a trained dog.

In the tracking game the dog and owner never stop learning, there are many scenarios that can occur with tracking wounded deer. And many different environments to be in if you deer stalk full time. I agree that most do not have the time or maybe the patience to train such dogs. Its an ongoing commitment that never stops, and the dog needs to bond with the owner in my opinion. The dog also needs regular work, as they can get bored easily.
 
Any dog does not just stay trained, especially in a task like infrequently tracking an injured deer - unless your a very poor shot managing a very big cull !
Of course many deer dogs work differently in accordance with the owners need. ie Night culling or 12-24 hour old call out etc
There are certainly folks who pay for trained dogs of all types of tasks and its a lot but many of those dogs go to the trainer / handler frequently . I am thinking of one particular dog here .
 
The trouble with most trained dogs good or bad it’s like any thing you have to find the work for them to keep sharp and interesting in doing for both part the dog and your self and to be honest I think most dogs with a bit of time will do the average work of what most stalker want a dog for to let you know if there’s a deer close and find a shot dead running deer however if I had a deer dog as such if I knew I mess a shot up badly dog or no dog I would get the pros in to deal with the der it deserves that not me with a average dog to push it around and s suffer more than it already has
 
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

For Sale: - Fully trained Hanoverian dog

3 year old Hanoverian dog looking for new home . Works daily on deer and fully trained will stalk on and off lead , very obedient with a great drive , would ideally suit contractor that can offer him lots of work . Superb nature , house trained and kennel trained genuine reason for sale . Pm...
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

There you are matey
 
My dog is now 10, she slowing down but has experience ontop of an her training.

Training life long and mostly it the handler who learns from the dog🤠
 
cjm1066 said:
the handler who learns from the dog
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And each dog is different and reacts differently. By training a dog yourself you learn the dog. And that's invaluable when either stalking or tracking... For example i've learnt that if i dont get to the carcass soon after she does it'll be full of bite marks!
 
phillips321 said:
And each dog is different and reacts differently. By training a dog yourself you learn the dog. And that's invaluable when either stalking or tracking... For example i've learnt that if i dont get to the carcass soon after she does it'll be full of bite marks!
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However - by getting a part / trained dog and working with it you can still get that understanding without the whole process and ultimately potentially ending up with a dog that won’t do the job - you are buying something you can see it’s ability rather than a pup that is entirely down to you.

If I was starting out - I would buy something part trained.
 
There are a lot of good points being raised here.

I've got a gwp 2 year old. She was 3k as a pup. 2 years of work(most of it being obedience) put into her training and she is still learning and will get experienced whilst doing the job full-time.

Imho it's always best to get a pup and train yourself but I know sometimes personal circumstances may make this difficult.

Every dog is different and training has to be tailored to suit.

Handlers:- i know of a gwp who was owned and trained by a full-time controller. He said the dog wasn't up to the job and parted with it. Another full-time controller took it on and he said it was the best dog he ever had. Raises a few questions
 
rem284 said:
There are a lot of good points being raised here.

I've got a gwp 2 year old. She was 3k as a pup. 2 years of work(most of it being obedience) put into her training and she is still learning and will get experienced whilst doing the job full-time.

Imho it's always best to get a pup and train yourself but I know sometimes personal circumstances may make this difficult.

Every dog is different and training has to be tailored to suit.

Handlers:- i know of a gwp who was owned and trained by a full-time controller. He said the dog wasn't up to the job and parted with it. Another full-time controller took it on and he said it was the best dog he ever had. Raises a few questions
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A different handler can make a difference.

A mate had black terriers . His mate had a border terrier that would not work or show for him . My mate took it on it became the best working and showing border in the UK
It was called Tyson. It covers a lot of bitches.

Handler temperament can play a big roll
 
It's easy enough to get a dog to track deer by the time it's 12onths old, particularly on blood trail. Sometimes it can be a short run or a long one.
A deer leg shot is a big problem and I have seen three legged deer keep up with the herd. I honestly feel you need either a very fast terrier type who will dance about and keep it in one spot (very hard to do).or a big breed to get a grip and hold the animal. So far my Teckel has been ok but then🤞I haven't leg shot one.
 
Most forget that you must train the dog in front of you , its a dog first and foremost then an individual and when we get past that its a breed .
Some dogs train fast but it doesn't make them better but you may get an extra year or two of work from them . Some train slowly " Sandringham Sidney " for instance but become absolute legends, through an extended training period.
Train the Dog in front of you not the one in the book and remember when breeding we owe it to those who come after us to only breed from the best and I mean by that in order 1. Temperament 2. Heath 3. Achievement
 
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