Choosing Lead-Free Bullets

That's perfect, thanks. I'd like to see a few more photos like this on their web site, I wasn't sure if each petal would break into small fragments or act more like banana peel. I can see how massively traumatic these bullets are, they do what the maker designed them to do - some will like it and some won't but I am far more interested in proof and facts and I appreciate that you have supplied that.
I agree, some photos like this would be a good addition to the makers website as I’d assumed if the ‘petals’ broke off they’d do so halfway along the bullet leaving a solid rear of the bullet - it looks like the entire bullet breaks into 3 large shards - an interesting variation on the fragmentation theme - presumably key to their effectiveness but not made plain on the Virtus website.

Virtus say their Eagle & Osprey bullets behave differently than the Merlin & mention different minimum impact velocities but sadly no photos of what it really means in practice. They sell themselves short on their website.

I‘d thought of buying a box to try just for accuracy as a starting point but the £10 postage for a box (double the norm for postage) put me off, I’ll hopefully pick some up at a show.

They look to be an excellent alternative to other designs, their suitability (as with any bullet) will vary due to the circumstances the user normally finds themselves in.
 
Here is the big question here, whats the possibility of said pictured shrapnel exiting and wounding another animal?

Thats a big lump!

The good thing about a bullet like barnes, fox or the lapua naturalis is 99% weight retention, that bullet goes in its coming out in 1 lump!

Thats why i use them.
It's a good question but I would have thought that the more the weight retention, the more chance of the bullet passing through and 'hitting' another animal. Of course, retained 'shape' is also important.

Those 'banana skin' shaped shards from the Virtus Merlin/Eagle have such a curve than they would probably behave like tumblers and lose/dump a lot of energy within the carcass. The shot in the photo looks pretty high to me, I would imagine if it was lower the shards would exit much further apart, some might tumble so much that they could go in any direction - but that is pure guesswork. It would be good if Virtus had a whole catalogue of carcass and bullet fragment photos from different species at different ranges - perhaps a few from gel blocks too.

There can't be many bullet designs that haven't wounded nearby beasts - lead or copper. If a bullet (or part of it) exits with plenty of energy, then the potential is there - unlikely but possible. It has happened three times to a friend of mine - .308/lead.
 
It's a good question but I would have thought that the more the weight retention, the more chance of the bullet passing through and 'hitting' another animal. Of course, retained 'shape' is also important.
Keith, I’ve shot going on 4000 if not more Barnes bullets over the years chuck in a couple of hundred Fox, 100 Etips , 100 lapua natualis and 50 GMX I’ve not killed another animal yet with one of my bullets exiting!

All those give or take a few for zeroing and load development have all been shot at live animals (deer & fox) over 3 calibres and now a 4th.

Tumbling shrapnel is more of a risk than 99% weight retention projectile, going in one side and neatly out the other, which in my findings, it’s pretty much 99.9% of the time.

These bullets just scream, absolute bloody mess to me!

I like a nice neat hole with minimal bullet damage in my carcasses, not something that’s been fed a hand grenade in which most of the pictures I have seen from these newfangled nonlead projectiles seems to be the case.
 
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Keith, I’ve shot going on 4000 if not more Barnes bullets over the years chuck in a couple of hundred Fox, I’ve not killed another animal yet with one of my bullets exiting!

Tumbling shrapnel is more of a risk than 99% weight retention projectile, going in one side and neatly out the other, which in my findings, it’s pretty much 99.9% of the time.

These bullets just scream, absolute bloody mess to me!

I like a nice neat hole with minimal bullet damage in my carcasses, not something that’s been fed a hand grenade in which most of the pictures I have seen from these newfangled nonlead projectiles seems to be the case.
I don't doubt it Lee, just stating another set of facts, the guy in question has been managing deer for 35 years and I would guess has shot around 40-50 each year since - not huge numbers but that's 3 in around 1,575. The most recent was lead RWS .308 that killed a doe, exited off at an angle and hit the spine of a buck that was standing a few metres to the right/behind.

Those (Eagle/Merlin) bullets do look like they would cause a helluva mess or from a different perspective - cause incredible internal trauma.

I think that the Virtus Osprey would be preferred by most in the UK as far as carcass damage is concerned but again, I'd like to see some photographic proof.

Looking on the bright side - and there is always one - the fact that yet another company is experimenting with different types of bullet can only be a good thing. We haven't reached peak performance/design of lead free ammo yet and I am all for more R&D on the journey.
 
Well i have zero experiance of fragmenting copper and i dont fancy it much , if others like it fair enough
I have however shot CWD, Muntjac, Roe , Red Hinds and stags ( some of these have been shot at over twice the distance many would try) . Nearly every one with the 100 grain 6.5 mm I think i have 30 plus stags with 120s , one of these ( one a group of three ) was shot last and it did run around a while , i put that down to the fear response of adrenalin . It remains the only deer that did any more than a death rush into the ground . The gralloch showed it shoulnt have taken more than a short rush into the ground but the flight -fight response is a strange thing. It put me off the 120s a bit but i have still bought an odd box to put to one side if the 100s get hard to obtain .
I dont know what the count is with the 100 grainers but its certainly into a three digit number . 90% are taken behind the shoulder
As i am now embarking on a 223 build for Scottish Roe , CWD and Muntjac i am going to embark on trying other brands.
I have witnessed a lot of bullet fails on none Barnes copper factory loads especially the winchester brand copper from a friends 270 . straight penciling through. He now uses the Sako blades and they do much, much better .
I dont really get why we need fragmenting tips the rotation of bullets in RPM is super fast and one of my most favourite things about Barnes copper is it kills very well without shrapnel finding its way through the meat .
Perhaps i will change my mind when i get into the 223 on the Scottish Roe , CWD, Muntjac? I try and keep an open mind but these type of bullets wont even get tested unless i find difficulties with bullets designed like the Barnes.
The only bad thing about copper is IMO the cost ( though long term barrel life is yet to be seen )
 
Can anyone provide any timeline as to the switch , legally I mean, from lead to non lead ?
No! there is nothing certain till its certain . Denmark just dropped their own lead ban after implementation. If lead was continued here in the UK i would still continue with bullets like the Barnes copper - Simply because i like them
 
Absolutely fair do sir, for me I like the ELDX for my 6.5 and the sako game head for 22_250.
Happy as a pig in muck with their relevant quarry ability
 
The only bad thing about copper is IMO the cost ( though long term barrel life is yet to be seen )
cost is irrelevant and as for barrel life my 270 secondhand when I bought it, but admittedly had done, bugger all, it is now 15 years, old 99% of its life and shot copper, and it still shoot subzero MOA now retired, gracefully to the back of the cupboard In fact I might get it out next week just for a little bit of nostalgic stalking
 
😂😂😂 you can only shoot 1 at a time!

Have 1 learn to shoot it well, the. No need for a cupboard full of wasted money!

cost is irrelevant and as for barrel life my 270 secondhand when I bought it, but admittedly had done, bugger all, it is now 15 years, old 99% of its life and shot copper, and it still shoot subzero MOA now retired, gracefully to the back of the cupboard In fact I might get it out next week just for a little bit of nostalgic stalking
🤔
😂
 
A few years ago, the choice of projectiles available for those of us who wanted to shoot lead-free ammunition was pretty minimal; Barnes was broadly the only name that the average UK stalker would have been familiar with.

Fast-forward a few years through:
  • Brexit;
  • The election of Joe Biden (and the subsequent scramble by thousands of Americans arm themselves to the teeth in the face of impending doom);
  • The possibility of a ban on lead in the UK and to top it off;
  • The war in Ukraine
and we find ourselves in an unprecedented situation. A huge number of us are searching for alternatives to traditional lead cup & core bullets and surprise, surprise, the shooting industry has responded.... for a price! We now find ourselves spoilt for choice (availability is a separate issue) and for many, it's a job to decide which type of projectile to go for, let alone which brand. However, due to the historic lack of choice and resulting dominance of Barnes, there is still a perception among many that lead-free projectiles are all one and the same. From a terminal performance perspective, that couldn't be further from the truth. These days we can lay our hands on the lead-free equivalent of anything from Varmint bullets to Round-Nose Bonded bullets, with an ever-growing number of options in between. As a side-note, even competitive target shooting is seeing a shift towards copper projectiles due to the advantages in consistency and BC that the manufacturing methods offer.

How can we differentiate between types?

There are a few ways that we could classify these bullets but for ease of comparison of terminal performance, I'd say they fit pretty well into 3 categories (if we exclude , each with their own positives and negatives.

Bi-metal (BM). Non-toxic metal core with a copper jacket; e.g. RWS Geco. These offer rapid expansion which assists in the generation of Hydrostatic Shock, resulting in decreased likelihood of an animal 'running on'. However, they generally result in less penetration compared to NFC and FC and a greater number of small metallic fragments left in the carcass.

Non-fragmenting Copper (NFC). Pure copper projectiles designed to retain as much weight as possible whilst delivering a level of expansion; e.g. Barnes TSX/TTSX. These offer excellent penetration and less carcass damage. However, they tend to create a smaller temporary wound channel and have less ability to generate Hydrostatic Shock (although some are specifically designed to induce Hydrostatic Shock, at the expense of other qualities). In turn, this reduction in Hydrostatic Shock puts greater importance on shot placement and increases the likelihood of animals 'running on'. A great choice for more competent shooters, especially for larger animals but they give less margin for error.

Fragmenting Copper (FC). Pure copper projectile that is designed to break into a number of parts, often in the form of 'petals'; e.g. Virtus Merlin. These give good penetration by the main body of the projectile, a wide wound channel created by the petals, and good ability to generate both Hydraulic Shock and Hydrostatic Shock. Also, they are usually lathe-turned so, precision is greater than BM or NFC. The downside is that carcass damage may well be greater than that from NFC and the petals may deviate enough to pierce unintended parts of the animal (such as the rumen), especially with suboptimal shot placement.

Which one is best?

To my mind, the ability of a projectile to deliver the most humane kill possible, should be the priority. So, the leaderboard is simple right?
  1. Bi-metal
  2. Fragmenting Copper
  3. Non-fragmenting Copper
......Except that all 3 are capable of delivering humane kills in the right hands, and each pair of hands will have different secondary priorities; whether that be high BC, low carcass damage, low cost, or something else.

Let me give an example.

The majority of my shooting is Fallow, Roe, Muntjac and CWD and I find that FC projectiles suit me best. The exceptional precision of the Virtus bullets makes them ideal for head/neck shooting and the fragmenting petals mean that at longer ranges where I am not comfortable taking a head/neck shot, I can be confident of sufficient expansion to ensure minimal 'running on'. Furthermore, the precision means that so far, I am yet to have a petal wander off-course and rupture a gut..... That's not to say that I haven't cocked up any shots but I have not had any issues that I could blame on the bullet.

Now, I rave about the Virtus stuff so I gave 25 of them to my Father-in-Law to try out. He's been stalking for decades and despite being in his mid 70s, he still shoots (and extracts!) more deer per year than most people have hot dinners! After a few months, I asked him how he got on with them and he promptly confessed that he hadn't tried them and that I could have them back. A split-second before I could accuse him of being an ungrateful b*stard, he explained why. He shoots a lot of large game in Africa and swears by NFC, specifically Barnes TSX for that. In the UK, he shoots a lot of Fallow and Red and wants penetration more than expansion or extreme precision as he disagrees with head-shooting and he's 100% confident of his shooting abilities; even at his age, he's still an GB competition shooter so, I can't argue! His priorities and his prior experiences mean that he is utterly confident that he has already found the best bullet for him in the form of Barnes TSX/TTSX. I have accepted that I will probably never win him over.

So, what am I trying to say?

If anyone new to stalking or lead-free ammo was hoping I was going to reveal the best lead-free bullet on the market, I'm sorry, that just ain't going to happen. This is such a complex and emotive topic that this thread would undoubtedly descend into an internet scrap and I'm shite at fighting in real-life and online! What I hope I have done though is explain why there is no such thing as 'the single best lead-free bullet on the market' and outlined a few pros and cons of each of the types available; all based on my experience and where appropriate, the experience of others.

What each of us has to do is decide which one best suits our needs. One of the best ways to do that is to consider several factors in the order that they are most important to you. For me, precision came top because as the theory goes, put your bullet in the right place and everything else is secondary; that's why I use Virtus. It's a personal process though so, nobody can do the thinking for you. Instead, I'll finish up with a list of things to consider. The list is just to get the conversation started so, feel free to pipe up with what is important to you.
  • Availability of factory loads (if you don't load)
  • The distance at which you shoot
  • Precision of the projectile
  • The size and type of animal you shoot
  • Your shooting ability
  • Acceptable carcass damage
  • Intended point of impact on the animal
  • Cost
  • Availability
  • Prior experiences
If you fancy giving Virtus a go, simply twist the arm of your own friendly Son-in-Law. Just make sure you actually use any bullets he gives you as failure to do so may cause emotional damage. If you don't have a vulnerable in-law to bully, I am sure @Virtus Precision UK will have a stand at the British Shooting Show so they can show off new products, like their factory ammo. Check out their Facebook/Instagram for more details.

Hopefully this thread is of use to some of us.
That's really informative, had you thought of doing a PhD on the subject? Joking aside I'm really impressed with the Barnes ttsx that I've used on fallow , excellent wound channels without all the bruising associated with lead
 
cost is irrelevant and as for barrel life my 270 secondhand when I bought it, but admittedly had done, bugger all, it is now 15 years, old 99% of its life and shot copper, and it still shoot subzero MOA now retired, gracefully to the back of the cupboard In fact I might get it out next week just for a little bit of nostalgic stalking
cost is never irrelevant, unless someone else is footing the bill ! Barrel life of 15 years just indicates how much you dont shoot the rifle, especially in a 270
 
I‘d thought of buying a box to try just for accuracy as a starting point but the £10 postage for a box (double the norm for postage) put me off, I’ll hopefully pick some up at a show.
OK, that postage is taking the p!ss, I recently bought some bullets from @R. Macleod & Son just 1 pack of Barnes, they charged me £4.99, £10 is a stealth charge to increase profits at the expense of the shooter, I wouldn't purchase from them on principle.
Hopefully they read this and change it.
 
A few years ago, the choice of projectiles available for those of us who wanted to shoot lead-free ammunition was pretty minimal; Barnes was broadly the only name that the average UK stalker would have been familiar with.

Fast-forward a few years through:
  • Brexit;
  • The election of Joe Biden (and the subsequent scramble by thousands of Americans arm themselves to the teeth in the face of impending doom);
  • The possibility of a ban on lead in the UK and to top it off;
  • The war in Ukraine
and we find ourselves in an unprecedented situation. A huge number of us are searching for alternatives to traditional lead cup & core bullets and surprise, surprise, the shooting industry has responded.... for a price! We now find ourselves spoilt for choice (availability is a separate issue) and for many, it's a job to decide which type of projectile to go for, let alone which brand. However, due to the historic lack of choice and resulting dominance of Barnes, there is still a perception among many that lead-free projectiles are all one and the same. From a terminal performance perspective, that couldn't be further from the truth. These days we can lay our hands on the lead-free equivalent of anything from Varmint bullets to Round-Nose Bonded bullets, with an ever-growing number of options in between. As a side-note, even competitive target shooting is seeing a shift towards copper projectiles due to the advantages in consistency and BC that the manufacturing methods offer.

How can we differentiate between types?

There are a few ways that we could classify these bullets but for ease of comparison of terminal performance, I'd say they fit pretty well into 3 categories (if we exclude , each with their own positives and negatives.

Bi-metal (BM). Non-toxic metal core with a copper jacket; e.g. RWS Geco. These offer rapid expansion which assists in the generation of Hydrostatic Shock, resulting in decreased likelihood of an animal 'running on'. However, they generally result in less penetration compared to NFC and FC and a greater number of small metallic fragments left in the carcass.

Non-fragmenting Copper (NFC). Pure copper projectiles designed to retain as much weight as possible whilst delivering a level of expansion; e.g. Barnes TSX/TTSX. These offer excellent penetration and less carcass damage. However, they tend to create a smaller temporary wound channel and have less ability to generate Hydrostatic Shock (although some are specifically designed to induce Hydrostatic Shock, at the expense of other qualities). In turn, this reduction in Hydrostatic Shock puts greater importance on shot placement and increases the likelihood of animals 'running on'. A great choice for more competent shooters, especially for larger animals but they give less margin for error.

Fragmenting Copper (FC). Pure copper projectile that is designed to break into a number of parts, often in the form of 'petals'; e.g. Virtus Merlin. These give good penetration by the main body of the projectile, a wide wound channel created by the petals, and good ability to generate both Hydraulic Shock and Hydrostatic Shock. Also, they are usually lathe-turned so, precision is greater than BM or NFC. The downside is that carcass damage may well be greater than that from NFC and the petals may deviate enough to pierce unintended parts of the animal (such as the rumen), especially with suboptimal shot placement.

Which one is best?

To my mind, the ability of a projectile to deliver the most humane kill possible, should be the priority. So, the leaderboard is simple right?
  1. Bi-metal
  2. Fragmenting Copper
  3. Non-fragmenting Copper
......Except that all 3 are capable of delivering humane kills in the right hands, and each pair of hands will have different secondary priorities; whether that be high BC, low carcass damage, low cost, or something else.

Let me give an example.

The majority of my shooting is Fallow, Roe, Muntjac and CWD and I find that FC projectiles suit me best. The exceptional precision of the Virtus bullets makes them ideal for head/neck shooting and the fragmenting petals mean that at longer ranges where I am not comfortable taking a head/neck shot, I can be confident of sufficient expansion to ensure minimal 'running on'. Furthermore, the precision means that so far, I am yet to have a petal wander off-course and rupture a gut..... That's not to say that I haven't cocked up any shots but I have not had any issues that I could blame on the bullet.

Now, I rave about the Virtus stuff so I gave 25 of them to my Father-in-Law to try out. He's been stalking for decades and despite being in his mid 70s, he still shoots (and extracts!) more deer per year than most people have hot dinners! After a few months, I asked him how he got on with them and he promptly confessed that he hadn't tried them and that I could have them back. A split-second before I could accuse him of being an ungrateful b*stard, he explained why. He shoots a lot of large game in Africa and swears by NFC, specifically Barnes TSX for that. In the UK, he shoots a lot of Fallow and Red and wants penetration more than expansion or extreme precision as he disagrees with head-shooting and he's 100% confident of his shooting abilities; even at his age, he's still an GB competition shooter so, I can't argue! His priorities and his prior experiences mean that he is utterly confident that he has already found the best bullet for him in the form of Barnes TSX/TTSX. I have accepted that I will probably never win him over.

So, what am I trying to say?

If anyone new to stalking or lead-free ammo was hoping I was going to reveal the best lead-free bullet on the market, I'm sorry, that just ain't going to happen. This is such a complex and emotive topic that this thread would undoubtedly descend into an internet scrap and I'm shite at fighting in real-life and online! What I hope I have done though is explain why there is no such thing as 'the single best lead-free bullet on the market' and outlined a few pros and cons of each of the types available; all based on my experience and where appropriate, the experience of others.

What each of us has to do is decide which one best suits our needs. One of the best ways to do that is to consider several factors in the order that they are most important to you. For me, precision came top because as the theory goes, put your bullet in the right place and everything else is secondary; that's why I use Virtus. It's a personal process though so, nobody can do the thinking for you. Instead, I'll finish up with a list of things to consider. The list is just to get the conversation started so, feel free to pipe up with what is important to you.
  • Availability of factory loads (if you don't load)
  • The distance at which you shoot
  • Precision of the projectile
  • The size and type of animal you shoot
  • Your shooting ability
  • Acceptable carcass damage
  • Intended point of impact on the animal
  • Cost
  • Availability
  • Prior experiences
If you fancy giving Virtus a go, simply twist the arm of your own friendly Son-in-Law. Just make sure you actually use any bullets he gives you as failure to do so may cause emotional damage. If you don't have a vulnerable in-law to bully, I am sure @Virtus Precision UK will have a stand at the British Shooting Show so they can show off new products, like their factory ammo. Check out their Facebook/Instagram for more details.

Hopefully this thread is of use to some of us.
Excellent post. Thank you.

I am on the verge of moving to NT ammunition and have the same quandary, as I have 3 stalking rifles (243, 6.5SE and 308) and have been looking at different load options.

243 I was likely going to go for Barnes TTSX, but for the 6.5 I was looking at Perigrine VLR4 and for the 308 Peregrine VRG3’s (the VRG3’s for woodland stalking with a heavier bullet at a slower speed).
But I have not shot any NT ammo yet so it’s all a bit of a journey.

Not looked at Virtus so will check them out, but in the main I think that NFC or FC is my direction of travel as I am not dead keen on filling a deer carcass with another metal having ditched lead!!
 
Pictures of roe deer at 60m using 6.5x55 and Virtus Osprey.
Small entry, larger exit. Evidence of slight fragmentation on skin on exit side.
Total meat loss about 4oz.

I mainly shoot roe. 18 months ago decided to switch to copper bullets. Found Barnes difficult to get accurate in my rifle. Used Fox which were very accurate but had issues with not opening and pencilling through causing not quick deaths.
Tried yewtree, again super accurate but had explosive results and massive carcass damage. Recently tried Virtus and after talking to Vern at Virtus he suggested Osprey driven fast. So far they are working well.
B8C4BFC4-2159-4564-9D20-AEE0F662B39B.webp461A31CE-957C-4F0D-A184-B6E6F60C3CB6.webp
 
Here is the big question here, whats the possibility of said pictured shrapnel exiting and wounding another animal?

Thats a big lump!

The good thing about a bullet like barnes, fox or the lapua naturalis is 99% weight retention, that bullet goes in its coming out in 1 lump!

Thats why i use them.
I agree with you here. With the Fox or Peregrine you have one lump that stays together and drives through the animal in a predictable straight line and then into the safe backdrop.

With fragmenting designs and indeed the old lead bullets you have no idea where the fragments will end up. At least with lead the fragments were pretty tiny, but with large fragments weighing perhaps 50gn - those can cause some pretty serious damage.
 
Pictures of roe deer at 60m using 6.5x55 and Virtus Osprey.
Small entry, larger exit. Evidence of slight fragmentation on skin on exit side.
Total meat loss about 4oz.

I mainly shoot roe. 18 months ago decided to switch to copper bullets. Found Barnes difficult to get accurate in my rifle. Used Fox which were very accurate but had issues with not opening and pencilling through causing not quick deaths.
Tried yewtree, again super accurate but had explosive results and massive carcass damage. Recently tried Virtus and after talking to Vern at Virtus he suggested Osprey driven fast. So far they are working well.
View attachment 294634View attachment 294635
Out of curiosity was the yew tree the hollow point or TLR ?
 
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