Another warning to check ballistic tip, 17 hmr ammunition. In particular the rubbish A17 made by CCI. Who seem particularly uninterested in any damage caused by there ammunition malfunctioning. Even though could of caused serious harm. So that's one off my list for future and advise others to do so or check carefully. My poor cz 452 took the brunt of it obviously, although, my hearing is still knackered.
Another warning .17 hmr ballistic tipped CCI
- Thread starter User00039
- Start date
Single round exploded in the barrel.
Not sure if same as hornady rounds where the neck of the case is cracked or if the bullet is pushed to far in. QC seems to be
passed few years with CCI and hornady. Missed one round out of thousands. Luckily the cz452 held up fairly well. Swelling in magazine weld. The magazine disintegrated as did case and bullets and case flew everywhere, right in the side of my head (I was sitting next to the one firing). Basically as far as I can tell QC is gone to in the necessity to produce more ammunition for the mighty dollar. Importer of CCI not interested. Fortunately never had an issue with HP
. My favourite anyhow only got the a17 due to 
shortage.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm
This is happening far too often yet the manufacturers are still saying nothing.
Recently in NI there was a spate of 9mm pistols pretty much exploding when a certain very popular bullet was used. Initially it was thought pilot error and ignoring the dead man’s click was to blame then it happened in several different clubs - always with the same ammo; NI is a small place in the overall scheme of things but has a thriving shooting community and the word very quickly went out to avoid this ammo.
This world-wide well-known manufacturer will probably not even notice their resultant drop in sales but the important point is they (quietly) dealt with the issue, recalled the ammo and restitutions were (eventually) made.
Soooo the big question, yet again and seen against the backdrop of a clear, well reported issue with .17hmr ammo - why have the manufacturers not done the decent and honourable thing too? In view of the continuing silence one has to conclude they are cynically playing the percentages game - until someone is severely injured or dies?
Class discuss.
This is happening far too often yet the manufacturers are still saying nothing.
Recently in NI there was a spate of 9mm pistols pretty much exploding when a certain very popular bullet was used. Initially it was thought pilot error and ignoring the dead man’s click was to blame then it happened in several different clubs - always with the same ammo; NI is a small place in the overall scheme of things but has a thriving shooting community and the word very quickly went out to avoid this ammo.
This world-wide well-known manufacturer will probably not even notice their resultant drop in sales but the important point is they (quietly) dealt with the issue, recalled the ammo and restitutions were (eventually) made.
Soooo the big question, yet again and seen against the backdrop of a clear, well reported issue with .17hmr ammo - why have the manufacturers not done the decent and honourable thing too? In view of the continuing silence one has to conclude they are cynically playing the percentages game - until someone is severely injured or dies?
Class discuss.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Stupid isn't it.
Please check every round. I know we shouldn't have to but it's the nature of the beast.
Use glasses, it's so much easier.
Takes but minutes per box.
Glad you reported it. The more stories the harder it is for the manufacturer to deny.
Look at these, quite easy to spot with glasses on, cheap reading glasses.
Please check every round. I know we shouldn't have to but it's the nature of the beast.
Use glasses, it's so much easier.
Takes but minutes per box.
Glad you reported it. The more stories the harder it is for the manufacturer to deny.
Look at these, quite easy to spot with glasses on, cheap reading glasses.
Hi, the split cases are easy enough to check. But you need a pair of calipers or check one against another to see if bullet pushed a little too far in. It is definitely worth doing. Just never had an issue with rim fire ammunition before!
I had a Hornady 35gr vmax round mess up my Weihrauch 22 Hornet when I had it. The case head split off leaving the hollow case sides expanded and stuck to the chamber. Fragments and heat/smoke pushed out around the bolt and magazine well. I managed to dislodge the bullet from the bore but the case sides remained glued/expanded to the chamber.
Edgar brothers took responsibillity, I sent the rifle to them and they checked everything out including using a special tool to remove the case.
They stated it was due to a difference in spec between US ammunition and some European chambers. I call bull on that however I'm happy that they made it right and resolved the issue. Very easy communication and pleasant to deal with.
It functioned just fine afterwards with different ammunition.
Edgar brothers took responsibillity, I sent the rifle to them and they checked everything out including using a special tool to remove the case.
They stated it was due to a difference in spec between US ammunition and some European chambers. I call bull on that however I'm happy that they made it right and resolved the issue. Very easy communication and pleasant to deal with.
It functioned just fine afterwards with different ammunition.
How did a single round cause the explosion though? Surely if the round is chambered, even if the case fails it should be contained by the bolt and chamber?
Would it not be a failed round prior that was still in the bore that has then had another fired up behind it causing the pressure increase and explosion?
I bought a huge box of these…so better get to checking them….
Regards,
Gixer
Would it not be a failed round prior that was still in the bore that has then had another fired up behind it causing the pressure increase and explosion?
I bought a huge box of these…so better get to checking them….
Regards,
Gixer
So if this was not a case of squib, lodged bullet in barrel and then chucking another one down it, then it sounded like case head separation and the resulting mag blow etc. Which is probably a headspace issue in terms of case sizing rather than the gun being at fault which is my best guess I suppose.
CCI makes all (well most) HMR ammunition for all brands including Hornady, CCI, Remington, Federal etc. I think Winchester do their own but generally speaking, CCI make a ton of rimfire ammo for other "manufacturers"
I check all my HMR rounds pre firing for split necks and I line them up on a flat surface as I check them off so they can all be compared against each other size wise with Mk1 eyeball but it is hardly scientific.
You do find the odd oddity in rimfire ammo boxes and that is not confined to just HMR ammo but on topic, this was a funny one I found. That wouldn't chamber but if it was the other way size wise, there is going to be massively excessive headspace which could cause case separation and potentially the same issue that the OP might have had.
CCI makes all (well most) HMR ammunition for all brands including Hornady, CCI, Remington, Federal etc. I think Winchester do their own but generally speaking, CCI make a ton of rimfire ammo for other "manufacturers"
I check all my HMR rounds pre firing for split necks and I line them up on a flat surface as I check them off so they can all be compared against each other size wise with Mk1 eyeball but it is hardly scientific.
You do find the odd oddity in rimfire ammo boxes and that is not confined to just HMR ammo but on topic, this was a funny one I found. That wouldn't chamber but if it was the other way size wise, there is going to be massively excessive headspace which could cause case separation and potentially the same issue that the OP might have had.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Any found with splits prior to firing are destroyed and not used.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
There does not need to be a previous blockage.
The powder used is relatively slow for a rimfire and needs neck tension on the bullet to ignite correctly.
With a split neck and hence no neck tension or insufficient neck tension there is a partial burn, enough to ram the bullet into the rifling lead (leed). That then becomes to obstruction just as the smouldering powder suddenly decides to combust. All in a nano second.
The powder used is relatively slow for a rimfire and needs neck tension on the bullet to ignite correctly.
With a split neck and hence no neck tension or insufficient neck tension there is a partial burn, enough to ram the bullet into the rifling lead (leed). That then becomes to obstruction just as the smouldering powder suddenly decides to combust. All in a nano second.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
The case is pretty full FB. It's not that buddy.Hmmm.
Has anyone explored the double charge proposition?
Why is that pressure any less or more than standard firing? Are we saying the bullet is not travelling fast enough to travel down the rifling but the pressure is such to bypass the bolt/chamber, not vent but blow out the magazine?
Seems odd….
Should it not have vented to the port circled below?
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Its
The powder is now in a semi gaseous condition. The composition of ingredients that control burn rate is now mute. So when it does combust it's near if not a detonation.
The vent you illustrate is for a case failure, not necessarily a detonation but will help.
It's one of the reasons I never really liked using spherical powders.
Some of them are fussy with regard to application and priming to case density or a commonly called flame out situation can occur and the reignition catastrophic.
Once these powders have been partially combusted their properties change instantly, all in a nano second. I think the time scale is the most difficult for people to understand despite them experiencing normal performance equally within the same time scales!
Hard to explain.
The powder is now in a semi gaseous condition. The composition of ingredients that control burn rate is now mute. So when it does combust it's near if not a detonation.
The vent you illustrate is for a case failure, not necessarily a detonation but will help.
It's one of the reasons I never really liked using spherical powders.
Some of them are fussy with regard to application and priming to case density or a commonly called flame out situation can occur and the reignition catastrophic.
Once these powders have been partially combusted their properties change instantly, all in a nano second. I think the time scale is the most difficult for people to understand despite them experiencing normal performance equally within the same time scales!
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
This can be explained by considering the pressure cycle. There's two main ones for a "normal" discharge. The first is detonation and partial burn causing obituration of the case, sealing the gas pressure and driving the bullet into the leade, then the second is the build up of pressure as the powder ignites fully, needed to swage the bullet and drive it down the barrel. If there's sufficient gas leakage on the first pressure cycle or only a partial ignition of the powder, it may well drive the bullet and just jam it into the rifling (partial swaging) then it can lead to dangerous pressure build up within the chamber upon complete ignition of the powder charge, which is why under loading can be as dangerous as over loading (partial swaging) creating a massive pressure rise.
All of this makes me glad I got shot of my HMR which was an accident waiting to happen. I lost count of the squib rounds encountered, on the face of it from ammo I'd checked as some of the hairline cracks in the case are hard to spot.
The issue hasn't been resolved at all. It stems from the need to prime the rim before necking the case down so the brass often work hardens and cracks. Many may have been lucky and not experienced any issues with their HMRs but a huge number of users have and how this can be acceptable for commercial ammunition is beyond me.
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