Thank-you
FAQ: Do I have an Open or Closed Certificate?
- Thread starter csl
- Start date
Guys please forgive me as I have not read the previous 8 pages just the first page.
Am I right in thinking mine is open, just worded differently
Regards Gareth
Am I right in thinking mine is open, just worded differently
Regards Gareth
What is the wording?
Open.
For anyone wondering on the mentor conditions, mine has the following.
THE .308 RIFLE, SOUND MODERATOR AND AND AMMUNITION SHALL BE USED FOR SHOOTING DEER, WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY MR. XXXXXX (AND ANY OTHER LAWFUL QUARRY, SUBJECT TO THE SUITABILITY OF THE CALIBRE) OR ON BOUGHT DAYS/AS AN ACCOMPANIED GUEST OF / IN THE COMPANY OF A CERTIFICATE HOLDER WITH THE APPROPRIATE LIBERAL CONDITION. THE RIFLE MAY ALSO BE USED FOR ZEROING ON RANGES OR ON LAND DEEMED SUITABLE BY THE CHIEF OFFICER OF POLICE (FOR THE AREA IN WHICH THE LAND IS SITUATED) AND OVER WHICH THE HOLDER HAS LAWFUL AUTHORITY TO SHOOT.
THE .308 RIFLE, SOUND MODERATOR AND AND AMMUNITION SHALL BE USED FOR SHOOTING DEER, WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY MR. XXXXXX (AND ANY OTHER LAWFUL QUARRY, SUBJECT TO THE SUITABILITY OF THE CALIBRE) OR ON BOUGHT DAYS/AS AN ACCOMPANIED GUEST OF / IN THE COMPANY OF A CERTIFICATE HOLDER WITH THE APPROPRIATE LIBERAL CONDITION. THE RIFLE MAY ALSO BE USED FOR ZEROING ON RANGES OR ON LAND DEEMED SUITABLE BY THE CHIEF OFFICER OF POLICE (FOR THE AREA IN WHICH THE LAND IS SITUATED) AND OVER WHICH THE HOLDER HAS LAWFUL AUTHORITY TO SHOOT.
Not very well worded, is it? It's far from clear whether you need to be mentored for the shooting of AOLQ, or only for deer.
And what's a "Liberal Condition"?
I didn't think it was the clearest either. Liberal conditioned, I'm taking to mean I can be accompanied by a certificate holder who doesn't have a similar mentored restriction (meaning I can go with my cousin and his open cert).
The AOLQ part definitely would appear to have very different meaning when placed before, or after the mentor name. I'm also unsure as to who deems a calibre as suitable, because some forces are fine with 308 for fox
The onus is on you to deem a calibre suitable for the species being shot. The deer act contains some legal minimums for deer, and there is guidance (but not law) relating to boar. However, you are legally required to avoid unnecessary suffering, so that's the book that would be thrown at you if someone were to decide that your choice of calibre was too small for what you were using it for.
308 is definitely not too small for fox, but you may not get a 308 granted with fox as the primary good reason (as 308 may be considered too big). However, "deer + AOLQ" means you're good to go where foxes are concerned.
@Stalker1962 this one, of similar vintage to the bumped thread.
I think many years ago this was indeed normal. That statutory conditions have to be there, of course; but any others are discretionary - and if there was a page of type (like I've got on mine) basically saying that you could use your firearms for any lawful purpose, then they might as well not put any discretionary conditions on at all. This would save time and ink, as well as removing fertile ground for errors and omissions!
I know this is an old topic but I have a question I can’t find an answer to. To put it short. If I have an open ticket. Can I go buy any caliber rifle and shoot it where I see fit. Or like I thought. I’d have to apply for a certain calibre on suitable land deemed by the FLO. Then shoot it where I see fit.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I believe you'd still apply for the calibre slot as usual, but you don't have to seek land approval and can shoot it so long as you think it's safe/appropriate and you have permission from the owner/sporting rights holder to shoot there
No.
It's not the ticket that's open, it's the conditions attached to each firearm.
So first you apply for the calibre that you want, and it'll either be granted with closed conditions ("to be used for x, y & z on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police...blah blah blah") or open conditions ("to be used for x, y & z on any suitable land over which the holder has permission.....blah blah blah")
You may have several rifles on your ticket, with some having open conditions and some having closed conditions.
Sometimes there's a catch-all condition that simply states "All of the firearms listed may be used....blah blah blah"
+1 for me too (.22 FAC Air and .17HMR respectively)
oystercatcher87
Well-Known Member
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
"Open and Closed tickets" are a common way of referring to the restriction on the place you may use a particular rifle.
Land deemed suitable by the chief officer of wherever the land is, or rather someone on their behalf. Has done checks (allegedly) and the land is safe to shoot X cartridge there.
The reality is any shot can be unsafe if the circumstances add up that way. You can safely shoot in many places that would not be approved by the police, change direction slightly and it's no longer safe. It simply is not as black and white as the condition makes out.
So you need "Good Reason" to have each firearm.
For example .243 Winchester for Deer, you are going on paid stalking (and have proof of provisional bookings).
You get a certificate with a section that says firearms to acquire, it will say .243 Winchester rifle, a moderator (if you asked for one) and a section that says how much ammo you can have.
Once you buy it ("fill the slot") you must apply again to either change or add another rifle.
Have you read Home Office Guidelines Firearms? If not I suggest you Google it and have a read through, it's well worth reading. You can then ask should you not understand parts of it (it is not always clear). It also gives you a reference to question your FLD/FEO from should the need arise.
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