Knight's Stoner 1 (KS-1) - New Rifle for British Army

[LeftHandGuy]

Better than mark1 and mark1 second pattern, Swiss Vetterli repeater, bolt action, Russian Berdan II better cartridge and bolt action, Mauser 1871 better cartridge and bolt action. Turkish Peabody Martini the same action but a drawn brass cartridge instead of a 5 piece copper.

Yes, the rolled foil cases were junk - but you can't blame that on the rifle. A single shot bolt action is no advantage over a Martini, at least not in the context of the "small bore" black powder cartridges of the era, and is actually a disadvantage if you want, or need, to shoot it left handed. The Vetterli offered a magazine that's true, but was chambered for a rimfire cartridge. The Peabody Martini was a clone of the British one but for the chambering (and yes the Ottoman/Turkish drawn brass ammunition was better). Sure the bolt actions showed how developments would lead to magazine fed, charger loaded rifles, which absolubly renedered all the single shots obsolete.

But the sad truth is that if Britain even adopted one of the bolt actions instead of the Martini, they would still have tried to use the stupid rolled foil cases.

I could agree that the Martini was a technological dead-end (the attempts to turn it into a repeater are eye-poppingly bad, terrifying to contemplate as a military weapon), but I don't agree that any of the other rifles available in 1871 rendered it obsolete. Anyway, it's been an enjoyable diversion

 

[Klenchblaize]

Thought this was yet another Creedmoor thread.

K

 

[User00040]

What they should have bought...

 

[Mungo]

Whilst funny, I am not sure that's entirely fair.

The adoption of the Lewis, Bren, and Sten were pretty creditable, and more recently the choice by UK armed forces of the Glock17 was a sensible choice of a proven sidearm.

Vickers!

 

[Rory]

What they should have bought...

View attachment 328396

Read about that just today as a matter of fact!

 

[User00040]

Read about that just today as a matter of fact!
View attachment 328415

Got to be ready for the next war, not the last one!

 

[KimE]

Vickers!

Britain put the smart men on horses in ww1 the stupid ones operated machine guns. Russia had learned how important machine guns were so the smart men got to learn to use them, but Russia had to few of them so as soon the fighting started they pulled back the machine guns and let the infantry die to save the maxims.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Vickers!

The Vickers was unquestionably the zenith of the Maxim machine gun. I didn't include it because I don't know much about it's procurement. I do know that the British Army went into the First World War with fewer machine guns than the German Army and that having (many) more of them would have been appreciated.

Looked at retrospectively, the British Army had many (not all) of the best weapons, for that conflict. The SMLE, Lewis, Vickers, Mills bomb and Stokes Mortar, and even the Webley revolver (clearly superceded by the 1911) all performed so well that they were still in service decades later.

 

[KimE]

The Vickers was unquestionably the zenith of the Maxim machine gun. I didn't include it because I don't know much about it's procurement. I do know that the British Army went into the First World War with fewer machine guns than the German Army and that having (many) more of them would have been appreciated.

Looked at retrospectively, the British Army had many (not all) of the best weapons, for that conflict. The SMLE, Lewis, Vickers, Mills bomb and Stokes Mortar, and even the Webley revolver (clearly superceded by the 1911) all performed so well that they were still in service decades later.

In august 1914 Britain had 111 vickers machineguns about 2000 in total of machineguns most common model 1889. But Britain might had the best cavallery.

 

[Foxyboy43]

In august 1914 Britain had 111 vickers machineguns about 2000 in total of machineguns most common model 1889. But Britain might had the best cavallery.

Likely so and probably the best Cavalry Officers too. The slight problem was they were all of the mind that Cavalry conquers - which was probably the case last when Napoleon Bonaparte had a few local difficulties with them!

 

[tim@tcs]

Don’t forget it was a small professional army!

 

[KimE]

Now its drones we are just beguinning to see the importance of.

 

[antsa]

Britain put the smart men on horses in ww1 the stupid ones operated machine guns. Russia had learned how important machine guns were so the smart men got to learn to use them, but Russia had to few of them so as soon the fighting started they pulled back the machine guns and let the infantry die to save the maxims.

Even further back in time General George Armstrong Custer decided that he wouldn't need Gatling guns at Little Big Horn. They might have helped save his scalp.

Cheers

 

[KimE]

Even further back in time General George Armstrong Custer decided that he wouldn't need Gatling guns at Little Big Horn. They might have helped save his scalp.

Cheers

The US military didn`t like spending thouse expensive 45gov cartridges so they used the old trapdoor springfield and let the indians use 1866 and 1873 Winchesters.

 

[phildsmith69]

As this is an AR based weapon I'm guessing it will still be in 5.56mm ?

It’s 5.56

 

[Fowler1990]

Edgar brothers. ..
What's the commission rate and I am looking for a new line of work
*Not driven by money