.300 blackout or something different as a handy farm rifle.

[Wmjas]

So the venerable .308 and the Blackout use the same bullets - so why favour the Blackout then?

.300blk is good if you have a semi auto and don’t need to shoot as far. Just as an example comparing similar ammo on strelok a 120gr .300blk Barnes VOR-TX load leaves the muzzle at 2100ft/s a 130gr .308 VOR-TX load is pushing 3125 ft/s at the muzzle. I know it’s not a great example but it makes my point. I can’t see why anyone with a bolt gun would use it.

That being said it’s similar to saying 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x55 use the same bullet so why favour the Creedmoor?…but that’s a different can of worms.

 

[Foxyboy43]

.300blk is good if you have a semi auto and don’t need to shoot as far. Just as an example comparing similar ammo on strelok a 120gr .300blk Barnes VOR-TX load leaves the muzzle at 2100ft/s a 130gr .308 VOR-TX load is pushing 3125 ft/s at the muzzle. I know it’s not a great example but it makes my point. I can’t see why anyone with a bolt gun would use it.

That being said it’s similar to saying 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x55 use the same bullet so why favour the Creedmoor?…but that’s a different can of worms.

Yep I totally get the semi auto-thing (from memory I think that's what the BO was designed for) but in the UK semis are banned above 22 magnum so what I don't quite understand is why you would have one in the UK when the .308 gives much greater performance and offers far greater flexibility - with the same bullets. Then there's the similarity to the excellent and long established 7.62x39….
Not criticism - just curious.

 

[Smellydog]

Basically it's because it's new and at its level of performance, efficient.
The 30 Apache pre dated it but it didn't have a special ops ring to it's name .
In the past I have loaded 308 at subsonic levels and it is quite easy.
I still preferred however a 110v max doing 3160 from the 20" barrel at the time.
Twas very pleasant to shoot, flat, safe and very effective.

 

[KimE]

Yep I totally get the semi auto-thing (from memory I think that's what the BO was designed for) but in the UK semis are banned above 22 magnum so what I don't quite understand is why you would have one in the UK when the .308 gives much greater performance and offers far greater flexibility - with the same bullets. Then there's the similarity to the excellent and long established 7.62x39….
Not criticism - just curious.

I bought mine in a short 84cm long brake action BA13 for beaver, roe deer and grouse. Beaver are about 10-30kg perfect size of animal for the blackout distance are usually under 100m , 110gr vmax loaded with 18gr of H110 are perfect. I have used the blackout out to 200m but its best within 150m most smallgame are shot at closer distance anyway. If I use my Tikka T3 .308w i can shoot smallgame out to maybee 250m but its not that much different in usefull range a grouse are tiny at 150m. Roe deers are a small animal so the energy of the .308w are not needed.

 

[jthyttin]

Traditional 308 twists won't stabilize subsonic 220gr, maybe not even 190gr Sub-X. And if you want to count on expansion for terminal performance, you don't want marginally stable bullets. I guess 1-10" will stabilize Sub-X, probly not Nosler. 220gr flatbase Hornady is marginally stable from 1-9.5" AK barrel, and it's shorter than Nosler.

If you want to shoot subs, life is much easier when you begin with smaller cartridge. Blackouts also come with tighter twist so if you want to really stretch it and plink beyond 100 y/m (when BC starts to have any real effect on trajectory), you can use suitable bullets. With smaller case you can also use pistol bullets, with 308 they're quite terrible. In most legislations, the stuff you can shoot with 30cal subsonic, doesn't really require heavy bullets for terminal performance.

You can always split the difference by going 30 PPC, 30 BR and so on. I'd skip 7.62x39 in purpose-built sub bolt action (I have one).

 

[jthyttin]

For anyone questioning subx bullets ability have a look at this

Watched the first 7 minutes. Sorry, I didn't see anything to suggest that Sub-X is somehow special.

 

[Wmjas]

Traditional 308 twists won't stabilize subsonic 220gr, maybe not even 190gr Sub-X. And if you want to count on expansion for terminal performance, you don't want marginally stable bullets. I guess 1-10" will stabilize Sub-X, probly not Nosler. 220gr flatbase Hornady is marginally stable from 1-9.5" AK barrel, and it's shorter than Nosler.

If you want to shoot subs, life is much easier when you begin with smaller cartridge. Blackouts also come with tighter twist so if you want to really stretch it and plink beyond 100 y/m (when BC starts to have any real effect on trajectory), you can use suitable bullets. With smaller case you can also use pistol bullets, with 308 they're quite terrible. In most legislations, the stuff you can shoot with 30cal subsonic, doesn't really require heavy bullets for terminal performance.

Yeah as per my first post I decided to get my .308 rebarrelled in a faster twist to reliably stabilise heavier bullets and is something the OP should think about. I agree 1-10 is probably fine for 190gr but I didn’t want to risk it and wanted to load 220gr if possible

Watched the first 7 minutes. Sorry, I didn't see anything to suggest that Sub-X is somehow special.

No, not suggesting it’s special but someone was questioning whether it reliably expands so I popped this on there as a counterpoint from someone who’s clearly having good results. What’s interesting is that he swaps over to supersonic when the pigs get further out, handy to be able to quickly shift zero on a digital scope, not something I’d thought about.

 

[jthyttin]

Most shots were CNS (first 7 minutes, that is), and the few body shots were not that spectacular. Also boar offers much more resistance (to aid expansion) than something like fox.

I'd prefer Lehigh, pistol bullets, or "cook your own" for light targets. Or actually in reverse order, based on price and availability.

 

[Bowland blades]

I'd be very cautious about shooting anything subsonic if you've got Neighbours near by. You're backstop needs to be absolutely on point. Twice I've known the hornady 190gr sub x rounds bounce after hitting there targets. One went through a fox...hit soft mud then bounced. Luckily I knew there was nothing but open field behind but a friend had a similar experience with 300 blackout. Shot into a bank and it must of hit a stone or something and proceed to bounce up the hill.
They expand alright but just be mindful its a big piece of lead that's being launched rather slowly.

In fairness same can happen with any round , indeed energy being increased by more speed is as likely to be more dangerous because they will travel further if they miss your intended back-stop . The lack of the ability to hear a supersonic ricochet does not mean they aint occurring

 

[Heym SR20]

I think the perfect farm gun is the old Brno Combination gun in 12 over any number of different calibres - .222 probably most versatile. Or the Tikka 512, Valmet or Finnclassic version - same gun made by various makers over the years.

 

[zero]

I think the perfect farm gun is the old Brno Combination gun in 12 over any number of different calibres - .222 probably most versatile. Or the Tikka 512, Valmet or Finnclassic version - same gun made by various makers over the years.

Over the years myself and my late father have had a few Savage combination guns. .410 or 20bore shotgun with a .22 rifle on top. Worked well with a 1-4x24 scope on and always came home with something but they were heavy to carry about. Apart from the Savage 42 which was more of a plastic camping gun than a farm gun. The model 24's would have been alot lighter if the steel used for the rifle barrel had been bored out for a bigger calibre rather than a large steel rod with a .22 hole down the middle. Maybe something European with a .222 or .223 over a 20 bore would be a lighter carry..

 

[Heym SR20]

Over the years myself and my late father have had a few Savage combination guns. .410 or 20bore shotgun with a .22 rifle on top. Worked well with a 1-4x24 scope on and always came home with something but they were heavy to carry about. Apart from the Savage 42 which was more of a plastic camping gun than a farm gun. The model 24's would have been alot lighter if the steel used for the rifle barrel had been bored out for a bigger calibre rather than a large steel rod with a .22 hole down the middle. Maybe something European with a .222 or .223 over a 20 bore would be a lighter carry..

I have a Ferlach built combination - 16 over 7x65r. Just over 6lbs without scope, 7lbs with. It’s my goto gun. Taken deer at 200 plus, and have also shot duck, phaesant, fox with shot barrel, and shot at but missed woodcock and grouse. I love it.

 

[Smellydog]

Over the years myself and my late father have had a few Savage combination guns. .410 or 20bore shotgun with a .22 rifle on top. Worked well with a 1-4x24 scope on and always came home with something but they were heavy to carry about. Apart from the Savage 42 which was more of a plastic camping gun than a farm gun. The model 24's would have been alot lighter if the steel used for the rifle barrel had been bored out for a bigger calibre rather than a large steel rod with a .22 hole down the middle. Maybe something European with a .222 or .223 over a 20 bore would be a lighter carry..

They did a 24 in 12g/ hornet. I had one, still a lump but very good. They also did one with a 30/30 up top. I don't think any were imported to the UK though.

 

[zero]

They did a 24 in 12g/ hornet. I had one, still a lump but very good. They also did one with a 30/30 up top. I don't think any were imported to the UK though.

Aye, always liked the idea of a 30-30 on top I've never seen one though.

 

[zero]

I have a Ferlach built combination - 16 over 7x65r. Just over 6lbs without scope, 7lbs with. It’s my goto gun. Taken deer at 200 plus, and have also shot duck, phaesant, fox with shot barrel, and shot at but missed woodcock and grouse. I love it.

That sounds a sensible combination, I think the Savage was about 9lbs ish but thats a hazy memory.

 

[zanes]

If you fancy something different and ‘interesting’ how about the CZ527 Carbine in 7.62x39? It’s deer legal and fox lethal! While mine isn’t they can be screw cut for mod.

Mine weighs just over 7lbs as pictured.

View attachment 342940

Lovely little rifle and cartridge, I'm very happy with my Howa Mini action in 7.62x39 as my 'light' centrefire for range use.

Am I right in recalling the CZs (and possibly the Ruger Ranch which also takes cheap mags) have the bonus of being bored for .309" bullets rather than the 'true to cartridge' .311" my Howa is? .309" bullets of course being much more available and in a bigger choice of types/weights.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

I think the perfect farm gun is the old Brno Combination gun in 12 over any number of different calibres - .222 probably most versatile. Or the Tikka 512, Valmet or Finnclassic version - same gun made by various makers over the years.

Wow that does sound a superb combination actually

I'm off to guntrader

 

[Andy RV]

Lovely little rifle and cartridge, I'm very happy with my Howa Mini action in 7.62x39 as my 'light' centrefire for range use.

Am I right in recalling the CZs (and possibly the Ruger Ranch which also takes cheap mags) have the bonus of being bored for .309" bullets rather than the 'true to cartridge' .311" my Howa is? .309" bullets of course being much more available and in a bigger choice of types/weights.

The Howa mini action is also a good shout.

The CZ’s are .311” bores.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

I'm not sure how credible this is- but I have heard some police forces are withdrawing or declining 300 Blackouts because they view them as an assault rifle/SWAT team calibre or something similarly bizarre.

Again this info is second hand. But i wouldn't put it beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[zanes]

I'm not sure how credible this is- but I have heard some police forces are withdrawing or declining 300 Blackouts because they view them as an assault rifle/SWAT team calibre or something similarly bizarre.

Again this info is second hand. But i wouldn't put it beyond the realms of possibility.

Entirely possible, much like the occasional 'are you loading for an AK-47 then?' quips I've heard about the 7.62x39. I never had any objections to a slot for a 7.62x39 but its target only and was granted probably 5 years ago.

In reality it's just another centrefire with, especially in the case of the aforementioned 7.62x39, entirely (especially?) pedestrian performance and ballistics.

In my case for range work it fulfilled my 'something a bit different and cheap to run for a centrefire' itch. From load research I've done on various US forums it undoubtedly makes a very handy and capable hunting rifle/round at sensible ranges, but there's nothing inherently special or exotic about either chambering.

The only issue/question I could perhaps see from an FEO for the x39/300BLK is it could be seen as a 'bit too much' for vermin with it being a 30 cal but a 'bit too little' for deer in terms of energy and range (check out the trajectory compared to other calibres- can .300 BLK be made deer legal?). Perhaps in the middle would be fox or similar but not sure I'd take a x39 over something like a .223 for that? Maybe an angle on .300BLK is noise as there are loads of sub loads for that - x39 subsonic is a bit more niche and the small amount of work I've done on that side of things hasn't worked well at all.

There's also the real practical considerations of availability/choice/price of rifles (took me years to find a heavy barreled bolt action) and components versus something more usual- though of course .300BLK doesn't have the latter issue as the brass is easily convertible from .223. Not sure on factory availability for ammo in either case, especially for hunting.

As anyone with a reloading or ballistics manual would be able to prove neither calibre is worth getting worked up about in terms of performance. I'd certainly be happy to argue the toss with my set of .30 cals....