TB in Deer

[west_meon]

Working in the agricultural sector, I keep coming across cattle farmers and farm vets who are adamant that deer are carrying TB and spreading it to cattle (although to be fair, one vet thought this unlikely in wild deer but quite possible that TB is present in farmed deer). Speaking to stalkers, very few, if any, seem to be seeing clinical signs of TB in the carcasses of shot animals.

What are other people's experience?

Is TB present in lots of wild deer and just not being spotted (or particularly looked for), or is this a possible case of farmers adding 2+2 and getting 5 (TB on the increase, deer numbers on the increase, therefore QED!)?

It would be great to hear thoughts on this..

 

[Jon P]

I have had TB confirmed in wild deer a number of years ago.

 

[Crowstalker]

Could well be a mixture of everything, people like to talk and as you say put 2 and 2 together you get 5. But who knows really?

 

[tombowen1602]

Working in the agricultural sector, I keep coming across cattle farmers and farm vets who are adamant that deer are carrying TB and spreading it to cattle (although to be fair, one vet thought this unlikely in wild deer but quite possible that TB is present in farmed deer). Speaking to stalkers, very few, if any, seem to be seeing clinical signs of TB in the carcasses of shot animals.

What are other people's experience?

Is TB present in lots of wild deer and just not being spotted (or particularly looked for), or is this a possible case of farmers adding 2+2 and getting 5 (TB on the increase, deer numbers on the increase, therefore QED!)?

It would be great to hear thoughts on this..

I’ve seen tb in deer manly fallow round by me but I do think the deer spreed it because they will intractable with the cattle same as awer black and whitle frainds

 

[Jay243]

I had the first case of TB in wild deer last year , one old doe shot with follower the doe was full of tb and the follower was not , first one I have seen in 30 years of stalking .Our cattle are clear but less than half a mile a farmer keeps going down with it and blames both badgers and the deer , would like to know what % of badgers have tb that are culled .

 

[Goingback]

Fallow and red are susceptible to TB. Roe are significantly less likely to be affected. In a high TB area, just one roe out of 2000 plucks examined carried bTB. I am unsure about Muntjac and Chinese.
Any mammal will carry bTB. Squirrels, fox, cat and even dogs will carry it with very few outward signs

 

[308tikka]

There is definitely TB in deer. Not everywhere. Im aware of a population of fallow with TB. Right beside dairy cows.

Ive never seen it in muntjac or CWD.

 

[NoIDeer]

www.tbhub.co.uk website explains the thinking well - "Wild deer are highly susceptible to TB infection. In Great Britain they are generally considered to be spill-over hosts of TB i.e. they are unlikely to sustain the infection within their own population in the absence of infected cattle or a wildlife reservoir."

 

[Buchan]

Herding species have higher levels than the solitary ones and there certainly are cases where the involvement of deer was highly suspicious eg recurrent sporadic farm breakdowns until a herd of deer was removed.

One of the things that would be a helpful bit of data is the number of deer shot in a location that do not have TB. While the positives get reported, knowing the negatives - the bulk of deer, would be useful. However the real big problem is that DEFRA will not allow TB to be dealt with as an infectious disease. There are too many arcane rules that prevent a farm clearing the diseased animals. We still have the farce of a case not being official until it is culture positive. If the skin test is positive, it is TB, end of.

 

[Dickie]

I can’t remember the exact numbers and it was a good few years ago but I think of a 100 plucks from an area on the mendips 100 roe deer equalled 1 bovine tb and 1 avian tb, 23 of 25 badgers all were bovine tb positive during the same period over the same location.

 

[Goingback]

I can’t remember the exact numbers and it was a good few years ago but I think of a 100 plucks from an area on the mendips 100 roe deer equalled 1 bovine tb and 1 avian tb, 23 of 25 badgers all were bovine tb positive during the same period over the same location.

It was a couple of thousand

 

[Reloader708]

Please be aware that there are different variants of tb, it seems to be only bovine tb that Defra are interested in as that is the one that poses the highest risk to humans.
I have been involved in two tb cases and initially after lots of hassle they were identified as the microti variant which is carried and spread by voles, mice and other small rodents (I belive even moles) but until a culture has been grown, which is apparently very difficult, its impossible to tell.

 

[devon deer stalker]

While the positives get reported

Are you sure about that?
I would say 'some' get reported, even though it is a notifiable disease.
There is a common misconception amongst farmers that their farm will go under restriction if a tb positive deer is discovered there, and in turn it doesn't get reported as they pressure the stalker to not report it!
In addition, when I reported the 2 (only ones I've suspected) it took 6 months for me to get an answer, and only then after me chasing them, red hind was positive, roe buck negative.

And a bit of advice to other less experienced stalkers, reds are herd animals, if you see a single hind during the season, based on personal experience, let it walk, odds are there is something wrong with it.

 

[mike308]

In my 45 years of stalking I have only come across 2 deer with TB and they were in Hereford in an area where all the farms were under TB restrictions. The deer were Fallow.

 

[Buchan]

Are you sure about that?
I would say 'some' get reported, even though it is a notifiable disease.
There is a common misconception amongst farmers that their farm will go under restriction if a tb positive deer is discovered there, and in turn it doesn't get reported as they pressure the stalker to not report it!
In addition, when I reported the 2 (only ones I've suspected) it took 6 months for me to get an answer, and only then after me chasing them, red hind was positive, roe buck negative.

And a bit of advice to other less experienced stalkers, reds are herd animals, if you see a single hind during the season, based on personal experience, let it walk, odds are there is something wrong with it.

Yes, should be reported is better and you are quite right. Finding Tb in a deer does NOT place that farm under restrictions. so there is no incentive to "keep quiet"

 

[cullguy]

Are you sure about that?
I would say 'some' get reported, even though it is a notifiable disease.
There is a common misconception amongst farmers that their farm will go under restriction if a tb positive deer is discovered there, and in turn it doesn't get reported as they pressure the stalker to not report it!
In addition, when I reported the 2 (only ones I've suspected) it took 6 months for me to get an answer, and only then after me chasing them, red hind was positive, roe buck negative.

And a bit of advice to other less experienced stalkers, reds are herd animals, if you see a single hind during the season, based on personal experience, let it walk, odds are there is something wrong with it.

You are correct a single hind on its own sometimes has something wrong with it & in my experience 30 + years they generally have something wrong with them and quite possibly it is TB (3 this year) they should be shot checked and and disposed off not left too spread TB in the area .

 

[willie_gunn]

One of the things that would be a helpful bit of data is the number of deer shot in a location that do not have TB. While the positives get reported, knowing the negatives - the bulk of deer, would be useful.

Which statistics would you like?

I have comprehensive records going back to 1997, so can tell you exactly how many cases, from exactly how many deer culled, by year, species, etc.

 

[Buchan]

Which statistics would you like?

I have comprehensive records going back to 1997, so can tell you exactly how many cases, from exactly how many deer culled, by year, species, etc.

Fantastic!
What we really need is a simple database for this to be logged. I know FC and other large organisations have this data, but not the many stalkers who shoot over farm land

 

[willie_gunn]

Fantastic!
What we really need is a simple database for this to be logged. I know FC and other large organisations have this data, but not the many stalkers who shoot over farm land

I've PM'd you.

 

[sh1kar]

Fantastic!
What we really need is a simple database for this to be logged. I know FC and other large organisations have this data, but not the many stalkers who shoot over farm land

I also have records for the last c 15 years. Mainly roe and muntjac in Hampshire. None had TB

S