Buffalo hunt video left me XXXXXXX
- Thread starter Foxyboy43
- Start date
Oh yes, but not for everyone !A fine strong healthy girl
Not particularly old. Not one I would shoot personally, but good shooting
S
levigsp
Well-Known Member
I know that things can go wrong with hunting any animal, and then its a case of getting it sorted.
But for anyone to say it the norm with buffalo of any description, is just wrong and in my book guides and ph should be ashamed. If buffalo is stalked correctly and the hunter shoots properly, it does not need more bullets as a norm, sometimes a well placed second shot is needed or preferred.
Hunting them is not for the faint hearted and the Ph should know that the hunter is up to the job.
Strangely I know two brothers that are both ph, one seems to get all the buffalo that need lots of bullets, the other doesn't! one post picture of piles of dead plains game, the other doesn't, guess which.
But for anyone to say it the norm with buffalo of any description, is just wrong and in my book guides and ph should be ashamed. If buffalo is stalked correctly and the hunter shoots properly, it does not need more bullets as a norm, sometimes a well placed second shot is needed or preferred.
Hunting them is not for the faint hearted and the Ph should know that the hunter is up to the job.
Strangely I know two brothers that are both ph, one seems to get all the buffalo that need lots of bullets, the other doesn't! one post picture of piles of dead plains game, the other doesn't, guess which.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Haven’t yet watched the video, but a few comments on African Big Game hunting.
1) a lot of Africa is really pretty flat. A lot of these areas were farmed and ranched. In days of old all the scrub was removed and farms looked like those in Europe, except that grass doesn’t do very well without a browse layer and crops need irrigation. And cattle are a much more temperate animal and don’t do so well in the heat, tetse fly etc. so a large number of farms have switched over to game ranching. They put a fence around the boundary and reintroduced native wild ungulates from impala, through to likes of buffalo. Most African farms are large compared to UK. In Rhodesia farms were calculated on you pegging out the four corners in one day on horseback. Most are a few thousand acres in total size. Whilst there might be a boundary fence they are still pretty big.
The bulk of sport hunting in many African countries happens on private ranches.
2) old style proper safari hunting in truly wild areas is getting more and more limited. There is a lot of pressure on land and when the likes of the Chinese offer huge sums to open up copper mining next to the Lower Zambezi National park in Zambia — former hunting area, it is very hard to turn down the money for an impoverished nation.
3) Running a wild camp and safari operation is bloody expensive. Just the logistics of running a fleet of vehicles is huge when you are 100km from the tar roads and even those are potholed. You are having to pretty much transport everything - fuel, food etc etc in. And Landcruisers burn a lot of fuel when working in the bush.
4) even running vehicles etc in places like Namibian ranches is bloody expensive
5) net result is that those clients who can afford to take buffalo etc are either very wealthy or much more likely in their late 50’s and 60’s when they have raised families, sold their business or reached retirement etc and have the time and the money to spend on hunting.
Many will not be in the first flush of youth, will not have the fitness and strength to cope with 40°c daytime temperatures and long walks through the bush. Besides at $1,500 plus a day you want to cover as much country and look at as many beasts as possible - hence widespread use of vehicles.
6) african animals are good to eat and grow up with plenty of other animals wanting to dine on them. This makes them very alert and tough to kill. And they generally go on the attack and cling on to life when attacked.
A large number of deer that are shot will take several seconds to die. They will often run 20,50 or 100 yards before running out of blood pressure. We think nothing of this - perfectly normal for a traditional behind the shoulder shot.
7) in Africa much of the bushveld, especially Buffalo country is quite thick, to extremely thick. A long shot can be 50 yards.
So we see a lot of video of Buffalo hunts where the first shot results in a running buff. If this was at 100 plus yards in open country you would think nothing much of it going into a headlong rush.
But when you start proceedings at 30yards, and you have trackers, PH and film crew all to hand, that headlong death rush may well be coming direct at you so standard procedure is to keep shooting till its dead.
The Buff probably doesn’t need all those bullets to kill it. The first or the second would have been adequate. But you don’t know, and you can’t often see it clearly because of the bush.
And if you are the PH there is an awful lot of paperwork and bad for reputation and business if your clients get squashed.
Of course a bit of a charge and the brave client emptying his Rigby 416 makes bloody good video and stories to tell round the camp fire.
1) a lot of Africa is really pretty flat. A lot of these areas were farmed and ranched. In days of old all the scrub was removed and farms looked like those in Europe, except that grass doesn’t do very well without a browse layer and crops need irrigation. And cattle are a much more temperate animal and don’t do so well in the heat, tetse fly etc. so a large number of farms have switched over to game ranching. They put a fence around the boundary and reintroduced native wild ungulates from impala, through to likes of buffalo. Most African farms are large compared to UK. In Rhodesia farms were calculated on you pegging out the four corners in one day on horseback. Most are a few thousand acres in total size. Whilst there might be a boundary fence they are still pretty big.
The bulk of sport hunting in many African countries happens on private ranches.
2) old style proper safari hunting in truly wild areas is getting more and more limited. There is a lot of pressure on land and when the likes of the Chinese offer huge sums to open up copper mining next to the Lower Zambezi National park in Zambia — former hunting area, it is very hard to turn down the money for an impoverished nation.
3) Running a wild camp and safari operation is bloody expensive. Just the logistics of running a fleet of vehicles is huge when you are 100km from the tar roads and even those are potholed. You are having to pretty much transport everything - fuel, food etc etc in. And Landcruisers burn a lot of fuel when working in the bush.
4) even running vehicles etc in places like Namibian ranches is bloody expensive
5) net result is that those clients who can afford to take buffalo etc are either very wealthy or much more likely in their late 50’s and 60’s when they have raised families, sold their business or reached retirement etc and have the time and the money to spend on hunting.
Many will not be in the first flush of youth, will not have the fitness and strength to cope with 40°c daytime temperatures and long walks through the bush. Besides at $1,500 plus a day you want to cover as much country and look at as many beasts as possible - hence widespread use of vehicles.
6) african animals are good to eat and grow up with plenty of other animals wanting to dine on them. This makes them very alert and tough to kill. And they generally go on the attack and cling on to life when attacked.
A large number of deer that are shot will take several seconds to die. They will often run 20,50 or 100 yards before running out of blood pressure. We think nothing of this - perfectly normal for a traditional behind the shoulder shot.
7) in Africa much of the bushveld, especially Buffalo country is quite thick, to extremely thick. A long shot can be 50 yards.
So we see a lot of video of Buffalo hunts where the first shot results in a running buff. If this was at 100 plus yards in open country you would think nothing much of it going into a headlong rush.
But when you start proceedings at 30yards, and you have trackers, PH and film crew all to hand, that headlong death rush may well be coming direct at you so standard procedure is to keep shooting till its dead.
The Buff probably doesn’t need all those bullets to kill it. The first or the second would have been adequate. But you don’t know, and you can’t often see it clearly because of the bush.
And if you are the PH there is an awful lot of paperwork and bad for reputation and business if your clients get squashed.
Of course a bit of a charge and the brave client emptying his Rigby 416 makes bloody good video and stories to tell round the camp fire.
EMcC
Well-Known Member
You wouldn't in those vicumstanced but it is distasteful to stalkers under normal circumstances.
Namman
Well-Known Member
Yes , but we are not talking about deerstalking.
The local Africans don't worry about bullet holes in meat !!
It’s about how you deliver the holes and where you put them, along with respect for the chosen animal … get close enough to stand a chance of an ethical kill, that first shot was at extended range.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm.
We have all, on occasion, had to shoot an animal a second or God forbid third time, unfortunately that can happen to anyone who lifts a firearm in pursuit of a living creature. However reading that it is apparently normal to put many rounds into an animal, any animal - including “crippling shots” thus resulting in unimaginable pain and suffering is I believe utterly appalling and to any right-thinking hunter impossible to defend.
We have all, on occasion, had to shoot an animal a second or God forbid third time, unfortunately that can happen to anyone who lifts a firearm in pursuit of a living creature. However reading that it is apparently normal to put many rounds into an animal, any animal - including “crippling shots” thus resulting in unimaginable pain and suffering is I believe utterly appalling and to any right-thinking hunter impossible to defend.
I’ve emptied an entire magazine and finished with a knife….
Balanced and nuanced.
Yes. Correct. And his poor eyesight and shooting ability was well known.
Discussions on other threads coupled with the fact that some pals are going to Namibia shortly and one has “booked” a buffalo prompted me to look at a few videos on dangerous game hunting - much of which was excellent and on a few occasions utterly terrifying.
This morning I watched the first 15 minutes of this long two-part video and to be honest the last minute of that 15 left me very unsettled to the point of extremely uncomfortable. Not for a moment am I sitting in judgement of any man’s sport but I have many reservations over what took place in these particular few minutes and the fact that it has been broadcast at all. It would be interesting to hear other views - measured and reasoned please.
Looks pretty normal to me.
The few times I saw buffalo hunted growing up, it was usual for two people to line up on the chosen animal and both keep firing until it was down. This was pest control when they got into farms, and the parks staff were taking no chances.
eggy74
Well-Known Member
That poor rabbit!I’ve emptied an entire magazine and finished with a knife….
What rabbit ?
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Fair enough M - sort of, with what are highly dangerous animals but only in certain limited circumstances; in this case it was a commercial hunt where presumably the animal was not a “pest’? It is not lost on me on how would let’s say stag shooting in Scotland or anywhere else would be perceived if a similar crippling shot(s) approach was used? I have this awful picture in my mind of those guys sitting round the campfire that night laughing and joking about how many bullets that beast took and just where it had to be shot in the process….
IMHO I guess the concept of intentionally crippling an animal, any animal, thereby causing pain and suffering before killing it is where the line must be drawn; don’t get me wrong, like all others who lift a gun I have had bad days at rabbits and deer where I have unintentionally caused suffering but in this particular case perhaps unethical and unnecessary are the best (repeatable) words and certainly never “sporting”?
Hanechdene
Well-Known Member
From my limited experience, the thought process after taking the initial shot on buff and if it should not go well, is to slow / pin the animal so that a dispatch shot can be taken quickly.
This is to stop it from disappearing into the bush where it then has the ability to circle around you and then charge, making a far more dangerous and extended time in locating it thereby causing it more suffering.
Incidentally, the buff I have taken have been with a 375 and have been all one shot kills with it running a short distance. However, the PH always repeats: reload get ready for another shot, it’s the dead buff that kills you! Even though you can hear its “death bellow” and can see it lying on its side, we have always moved in with extreme caution with the trackers throwing stones and frankly anything at hand as the approach is made.
This is to stop it from disappearing into the bush where it then has the ability to circle around you and then charge, making a far more dangerous and extended time in locating it thereby causing it more suffering.
Incidentally, the buff I have taken have been with a 375 and have been all one shot kills with it running a short distance. However, the PH always repeats: reload get ready for another shot, it’s the dead buff that kills you! Even though you can hear its “death bellow” and can see it lying on its side, we have always moved in with extreme caution with the trackers throwing stones and frankly anything at hand as the approach is made.
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