To 6.5 or not to 6.5 that is the question!

[Tobyc064]

Stick a 140 gr .264 into a necked down 30-06 case, load it to its capabilities and it will flatten deer just as well as a 120 gr from a 25-06 if not better.

What you are seeing is the result of of burning 15-25% more powder behind a similar weight bullet, not the <15 thou difference in bullet diameter.

I completely understand that but energy is comparable for the 6.5 having higher bc and heavy bullet whilst the velocity is still above good expansion speed. I feel like 6.5 bullets go through game like they go through wind. For arguments sake I still think a 270 would have better terminal performance than a 6.5 prc. I’ve had many rifles , 4 of them being a 6.5’s. Just my opinion , up to you what you use.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

Usual place - H/L/shoulder, not rear lung obviously, touch forward

I was reading somewhere just the other day that, with monolithic copper, shots to the Hilar zone are vital (far more so than with lead).

That's where I always try to place my shots.

 

[DavyG]

Usual place - H/L/shoulder, not rear lung obviously, touch forward

At 40 yds I’d be placing a shot somewhat higher…like the head.
DG

 

[25 Sharps]

I completely understand that but energy is comparable for the 6.5 having higher bc and heavy bullet whilst the velocity is still above good expansion speed. I feel like 6.5 bullets go through game like they go through wind. For arguments sake I still think a 270 would have better terminal performance than a 6.5 prc. I’ve had many rifles , 4 of them being a 6.5’s. Just my opinion , up to you what you use.

A 120 gr .257 and .264 of similar profile will have a very similar BC, a .277 won’t be far off.

15-25% more powder translates to more velocity, which translates to more energy, particularly as velocity is squared when energy is calculated. Nett result, better terminal affect on game, a 6.5 PRC is going to send them at higher velocity than your 4 rifles which will be comparable to .270 and 25-06 in terms of energy and terminal performance. That is assuming similar bullet weight and construction, the latter being key.

I think your understanding of ballistics is lacking.

 

[25 Sharps]

I was reading somewhere just the other day that, with monolithic copper, shots to the Hilar zone are vital (far more so than with lead).

That's where I always try to place my shots.

Not what I have found with my .280, heart lung shots doing the job.

 

[Rutland lad]

Interesting reading others opinions.

They don’t necessarily square with what I have experienced.

I use a 6.5x55 almost exclusively on muntjac to big fallow and park Sika. No issues using monometal FOX bullets.
If there are runners - and I don’t pretend they don’t happen, but a heart shot fallow pricket ran 30 yards last season without a working heart. So - if it hasn’t got a working heart as a result of being shot (with any calibre or any bullet) and can still run, then surely the argument about ‘runners’ and copper ammo is academic ?
I’m willing to be edumaceted here ….

 

[HonestJohn]

At 40 yds I’d be placing a shot somewhat higher…like the head.
DG

I’m not a gambler.

 

[Tobyc064]

A 120 gr .257 and .264 of similar profile will have a very similar BC, a .277 won’t be far off.

15-25% more powder translates to more velocity, which translates to more energy, particularly as velocity is squared when energy is calculated. Nett result, better terminal affect on game, a 6.5 PRC is going to send them at higher velocity than your 4 rifles which will be comparable to .270 and 25-06 in terms of energy and terminal performance. That is assuming similar bullet weight and construction, the latter being key.

I think your understanding of ballistics is lacking.

My understanding is that I don’t think 6.5’s don’t kill that well as I said just my opinion , my .25-06 with 100 grain nosler BT has 2203 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle . 6.5 creedmoor 140 eld m 2351 fllbs of energy at the muzzle. Yes I am an aware 25-06 has higher velocity but that does not equal to higher muzzle energy. Take what you want from this , go and cry if you want but it doesn’t change my mind as it’s not what I think it’s actually my experience, shoot whatever cal you want makes no odds to me but I won’t own another 6.5

 

[Sako75Hunter]

Not what I have found with my .280, heart lung shots doing the job.

Have you tried placing your shots in the Hilar zone?

My (far from expert) understanding is that the traditional heart/lung shot worked well enough with (traditional) lead because, being softer, the bullet tends to explode more on impact, demolishing a much wider area.

Monolithic copper, on the other hand, expands but retains its mass, so is more suited to a Hilar placement.

 

[scotch_egg]

The reputation for a killingness of a cartridge is really down to heresay, and I would opine is really down to the early users, their choice of bullet, shot placement, range and intended target.

So go back in history to the 280 Ross. A canadian cartridge designed by a Scottish Nobleman. It was a 7mm firing a 140 or 156gn bullet at above 3,000 fps. It was offered in solid spitzer type bullets for military use, a bronze capped soft point (think ballistic tip but use bronze instead of plastic) and I believe it was adopted by the Canadian military in a straight pull rifle. This did very well on the target range, not so well in the trenches of WW1.

It was popular for a while either side of WW1 for plains game isn east africa. Gained a reputation for being accurate and killing very well. That is until a certain Grey decided it was the perfect to use on Lion after chasing them on horseback. It wasn’t. The bullet was too soft for close range use, bullet only wounded a lion, that turned round and mauled Mr Grey. He did survive, but not for long.

The 280 Ross is but a footnote in history, although it has pretty much the identical ballistics of the 280 Remington, 7mm Rem mag, 7mm PRC etc.

Meanwhile a certain other Scottish gentleman by the name of Bell was making an outstanding reputation for the both 7x57 or 275 Rigby, and the 6.5 Mannlicher by using solid round nosed bullets for shooting several hundred elephants with brain shots. Same cartridge in the hands of the Boers and the Spanish had taught the Brits and Americans a thing or two about modern cartridges and marksmanship. Whilst not popular the 7x57 is still going strong, the 6.5 Mannlicher less so, but it’s cousin the 6.5x55 is still very widespread especially in Scandinaviour.

And the more recent 6.5 CM, 7-08, 7 PRC bring these right up to date and allow manufacturers to load a full power without worry of them being used in very old rifles. I suspect, given the adoption of the 277 Fury as a military cartridge in the US, we will see this becoming all the rage in the next few years.

Just latching on to the .277 fury. There is anecdotal evidence of people using the Fury case and reforming to other cartridges including 6.5 creedmoor, where velocities a significantly increased.

Let’s be honest none of the deer we shoot are armour plated. Stick it in the ribs and it’s going down.

 

[Andy Mauthe]

I think anything under a 600 Nitro Express or a 50 BMG is under powered for white tailed deer here in the USA

 

[Ratel]

Haven't got enough hair to grow the man bun so 6.5 CM.is out .243 will do the job at sensible ranges on any of our deer. Shot a lot of Sika and hybrid Reds (big ones) with a 22/250 when that was the biggest we could have across the water. Although one pal did get a 5.6x57 allowed. Another keeper over there shot all his Sika with a .22 Hornet. Unfortunately we are more restricted here with small calibres by stupid laws made by stupid people.

 

[Andy Mauthe]

Haven't got enough hair to grow the man bun so 6.5 CM.is out .243 will do the job at sensible ranges on any of our deer. Shot a lot of Sika and hybrid Reds (big ones) with a 22/250 when that was the biggest we could have across the water. Although one pal did get a 5.6x57 allowed. Another keeper over there shot all his Sika with a .22 Hornet. Unfortunately we are more restricted here with small calibres by stupid laws made by stupid people.

I don’t have a man bun either but I do have a 6.5 Creedmoor. I won’t get into all of the banter over the 6.5 Creedmoor but it’s a good chambering so I let the objective data help me make my selection when I was looking for a lighter caliber to fit in between my .223 REM and the 30-06. For me it was the best choice when I considered ballistics (6.5 Swede is not very popular in the States), availability of factory ammunition and components, and the fact that rifles chambered in it have a 1 in 8 twist so I can load the longer bullets without a custom twist barrel and stabilization isn’t a problem. I considered a 6.5 PRC, and may eventually get one, but one of my criteria was barrel life and the PRC is pretty hard on barrels. So I ended up with the Creedmoor. And I’m not sorry I got it. In my Anschutz 1782 it shoots lights out, has very low recoil, and will serve me well for High Seat whitetail, long range wood chucks, and ringing steel out to 500 yards at my shooting club. Just my experience and my criteria. If 6.5 Swede was more popular here (which it should be) I would have probably gotten the Anschutz chambered in that. But to think a 6.5 bore isn’t adequate for deer sized animals provided good bullet choice and good shot placement is really kind of ridiculous. If I ever go out west to hunt bigger game here in the states, I’ll be taking my Sauer 30-06. Or maybe that would give me an excuse to buy a 300 PRC????

 

[Rafter]

6.5 works for me.


In your new term anthology, you forgot to add smackdown - "my 6.5 SAUM has a metric buttload of smackdown".
None of these moved anywhere other than down after becoming shot. 143 Norma Bondstrikes @2950 seemed entirely adequate.

 

[Mungo]

6.5 works for me.
View attachment 366733

In your new term anthology, you forgot to add smackdown - "my 6.5 SAUM has a metric buttload of smackdown".
None of these moved anywhere other than down after becoming shot. 143 Norma Bondstrikes @2950 seemed entirely adequate.
View attachment 366734
View attachment 366735View attachment 366736

I think ‘bangfloppery’ and ‘smack down’ are just regional variants of the same thing. Also know as dog-borer shots.

 

[Rafter]

Ahh.
Divided by a common language.

 

[25 Sharps]

Have you tried placing your shots in the Hilar zone?

My (far from expert) understanding is that the traditional heart/lung shot worked well enough with (traditional) lead because, being softer, the bullet tends to explode more on impact, demolishing a much wider area.

Monolithic copper, on the other hand, expands but retains its mass, so is more suited to a Hilar placement.

Soft tissue damage, (that was a heart) .280 with 124 grain yew tree, 3100 fps at the muzzle, impact at 120ish yards.

I prefer copper that sheds petals, that said I have had similar with barnes 80 gr out of the 25-45 at a similar speed.

 

[25 Sharps]

My understanding is that I don’t think 6.5’s don’t kill that well as I said just my opinion , my .25-06 with 100 grain nosler BT has 2203 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle . 6.5 creedmoor 140 eld m 2351 fllbs of energy at the muzzle. Yes I am an aware 25-06 has higher velocity but that does not equal to higher muzzle energy. Take what you want from this , go and cry if you want but it doesn’t change my mind as it’s not what I think it’s actually my experience, shoot whatever cal you want makes no odds to me but I won’t own another 6.5

You’re missing the point I am making of comparing similar bullet weights, construction and profiles. If the bullet weights are the same, higher velocity must equate to higher energy, that’s just physics.

You’re comparing a softer, lighter bullet at higher velocity, of course that is going to be more disruptive.

By the looks of things you just need to load your 6.5 faster, I’m getting 2500 ft-lb with a nosler 129 ABLR and that bullet kills very well in 6.5!

Or are you shooting out of short barrelled 6.5s?

 

[Utectok]

Personally I shoot’s a 24” 6.5x55 with yew tree tlr leaving the barrel at about 3150fps and it’s the best killing combination I’ve ever shot on big reds and roe. I think bullet choice probably makes more difference than calibre in the normal stalking calibres. But if I was shooting a 6.5cm I’d get a 24” barrel fer sure.

 

[Mungo]

My understanding is that I don’t think 6.5’s don’t kill that well as I said just my opinion , my .25-06 with 100 grain nosler BT has 2203 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle . 6.5 creedmoor 140 eld m 2351 fllbs of energy at the muzzle. Yes I am an aware 25-06 has higher velocity but that does not equal to higher muzzle energy. Take what you want from this , go and cry if you want but it doesn’t change my mind as it’s not what I think it’s actually my experience, shoot whatever cal you want makes no odds to me but I won’t own another 6.5

I think you’re comparing high velocity v lower velocity. The difference in killingness seems more to do with speed than calibre.

I shoot a 6.5PRC, and believe me, it kills. It’s the killingest gun I’ve ever owned.

I also shoot a 6.5CM. It is a superb roe deer gun, and fine on larger things at close range, but it definitely doesn’t kill as well as the PRC.

Firing the exact same bullet (143gr eldx). The difference is the speed.

I think you’re confusing calibre with other variables.