Insurance for an observer taken out on a stalk?

[Apthorpe]

If the person had asked to join you next time you went to the cinema, would you seriously think about declining for insurance reasons? It's an absurdity. What if he choked on the popcorn, or fell in the aisle?

 

[pob]

If the person had asked to join you next time you went to the cinema, would you seriously think about declining for insurance reasons? It's an absurdity. What if he choked on the popcorn, or fell in the aisle?

Is this hypothetical cinema my absolute favourite one where the owners let me in for free whenever I want, and I want to take particular care not to injure their staff member or cause any drama or paperwork? The cinema that said with no insurance, they'd advise against it?

 

[Skietindiekop]

And there was me thinking that only businesses specifically employ people to find reasons not to get on with getting on. The future is doomed as there will never be enough cotton wool to go around.

 

[Apthorpe]

Is this hypothetical cinema my absolute favourite one where the owners let me in for free whenever I want, and I want to take particular care not to injure their staff member or cause any drama or paperwork? The cinema that said with no insurance, they'd advise against it?

No. It's the hypothetical cinema where you wouldn't take your guest, because your guest's employer wouldn't cover this under their insurance. Personally, I've never given a second's thought to carrying out a risk assessment or insurance before going to the cinema with an adult, nor to any other safe activity requiring no skill or particular care on the part of the participant.

 

[John Gryphon]

The whole thread is a crock of poop.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Why bother, all these grey areas, not worth the hassle.
Get them to pay for your insurance via Clivertons and carry on.

 

[pob]

No. It's the hypothetical cinema where you wouldn't take your guest, because your guest's employer wouldn't cover this under their insurance. Personally, I've never given a second's thought to carrying out a risk assessment or insurance before going to the cinema with an adult, nor to any other safe activity requiring no skill or particular care on the part of the participant.

OK. Let's abandon the obviously confusing cinema analogy.

I have permission to stalk on a lovely piece of habitat, granted by a conservation body.
One of their staff, who works in an office role unconnected to wildlife management and my contracts, has asked to accompany me and observe a stalk.
I decided to check with the staff who give me permission that they would be happy with this.
I outlined my basic H&S risk assessment and mitigation plan.
They said that they were happy with the H&S plan, but that their employee insurance wouldn't cover him.
They also stated that without insurance cover, they wouldn't advise it. (Their prerogative).
I do not want to upset them in any way. There's too much at stake. Their house; their rules.
I've since established with BASC that he is covered to come as long as he is "all properly equipped"
I'm going to crack on with my plan, if they are now satisfied.

Alles Klar?

I think this thread has run it's course. I need to run along now and attend to my afternoon skin moisturising routine and iron my socks. I'll join you all later on a Blaser thread where we can continue the ding-dong. Thanks chaps.

 

[John Gryphon]

afternoon skin moisturising routine and iron my socks.

Dont forget to bleach the crutch of your under wear too lol.

 

[Apthorpe]

OK. Let's abandon the obviously confusing cinema analogy.

I have permission to stalk on a lovely piece of habitat, granted by a conservation body.
One of their staff, who works in an office role unconnected to wildlife management and my contracts, has asked to accompany me and observe a stalk.
I decided to check with the staff who give me permission that they would be happy with this.
I outlined my basic H&S risk assessment and mitigation plan.
They said that they were happy with the H&S plan, but that their employee insurance wouldn't cover him.
They also stated that without insurance cover, they wouldn't advise it. (Their prerogative).
I do not want to upset them in any way. There's too much at stake. Their house; their rules.
I've since established with BASC that he is covered to come as long as he is "all properly equipped"
I'm going to crack on with my plan, if they are now satisfied.

Alles Klar?

I think this thread has run it's course. I need to run along now and attend to my afternoon skin moisturising routine and iron my socks. I'll join you all later on a Blaser thread where we can continue the ding-dong. Thanks chaps.

My apology, I misread the OP. I had understood the potential guest worked for a conservation body, but not understood that the land you stalk over was owned by it.

 

[pob]

Dont forget to bleach the crutch of your under wear too lol.

No need mate. I use aloe vera infused wet wipes, because I'm worth it. Sounds like you might benefit from trying the same.

 

[pob]

My apology, I misread the OP. I had understood the potential guest worked for a conservation body, but not understood that the land you stalk over was owned by it.

That's good of you. And I apologise for being too cryptic. Poor comms on my part from the outset

 

[John Gryphon]

I use aloe vera infused wet wipes,

Been using them for years, have shares in an AV plantation.

 

[Eddie P]

OK. Let's abandon the obviously confusing cinema analogy.

I have permission to stalk on a lovely piece of habitat, granted by a conservation body.
One of their staff, who works in an office role unconnected to wildlife management and my contracts, has asked to accompany me and observe a stalk.
I decided to check with the staff who give me permission that they would be happy with this.
I outlined my basic H&S risk assessment and mitigation plan.
They said that they were happy with the H&S plan, but that their employee insurance wouldn't cover him.
They also stated that without insurance cover, they wouldn't advise it. (Their prerogative).
I do not want to upset them in any way. There's too much at stake. Their house; their rules.
I've since established with BASC that he is covered to come as long as he is "all properly equipped"
I'm going to crack on with my plan, if they are now satisfied.

Alles Klar?

I think this thread has run it's course. I need to run along now and attend to my afternoon skin moisturising routine and iron my socks. I'll join you all later on a Blaser thread where we can continue the ding-dong. Thanks chaps.

I can't see their insurance not covering him.
He works for the organisation, observing an activity on organisation land.

Besides the abve, I can't see what insurance is needed anyway.

 

[8x57]

I can't see their insurance not covering him.
He works for the organisation, observing an activity on organisation land.

Besides the abve, I can't see what insurance is needed anyway.

Eddie some of these organisations are absolutely unbelievable when it comes to woke and avoiding risk or anything possibly contentious or safety related.

As an example I made a general enquiry to the Woodland Trust some months ago regarding deer related road traffic collisions adjoining local woodlands that they control. I wasn't looking for any great detail or any secrets. The reply that I got back informed me that the data was protected by the data protection act. In discussion with the lady on the stand at the Stalking Show she thought that that reply was hilarious. She said that the problem was that often the reply is from one of their volunteers who has limited knowledge and experience (actually she put it a bit more bluntly than that). By contrast I was sent a quite detailed reply from the police.

 

[timbrayford]

Hello chaps

I've been asked by an employee of a conservation organisation to take them out with me stalking. (I'd be delighted to do so)

My plan is not for them to actively participate; no firing the rifle, no handling the rifle or ammunition and no climbing into a high seat. No carcass handling, and no use of knives. No money or gifts will change hands, though I might give them some venison if they bring me luck. Anything else I should consider? (I'll give them a lift in my car to the site, since making them walk on the track behind me might be considered rude.)

Has anybody been over this before?

We often see people on this site arranging to accompany a stalk. Since I'm with BASC, I would be covered as the observer, but what about those observers who are not members, and are going out with people like me who do not have, or need, Professional Stalker insurance?

I've been advised to not risk it, but it seems a shame to forego an opportunity to promote what we do when the observer seems so keen. I haven't spoken to BASC/Marsh Insurance yet, but I will try again when their lines are free. If I am covered for 3rd party liability in this circumstance, my observer might be able to claim against me and will therefore be covered?

Crikey, what has this world come too? Cotton wool suits next?

 

[pob]

Crikey, what has this world come too? Cotton wool suits next?

I fear that once the sun goes down a cotton wool suit won't comply with The Nightwear (Safety) Regulations 1985 and BS 5722, so I'm not prepared to risk it

Thanks for joining in, but maybe read post #27? It explains the "problem".

 

[Heym SR20]

I have taken out individuals who are foresters and conservations but employed at a government/ policy / theoretical level.

They had absolutely no appreciation of what is actually involved in deer stalking and managing deer, in particular what is actually involved in finding, identifying and getting in range to deer. I also gave them an introduction to use of a rifle, starting with a 22rf, and then a stalking rifle.

Their views on deer management changed dramatically - as in, its not an easy job and takes a lot of skill, time and dedication. It’s very easy to sit at a desk and dictate policy, it’s another to be up all hours in woods, forests and open hill. Its easy enough to see a deer in a field or a group of reds on a hill a few hundred yards away. It’s a completely differeNt matter getting into range, dealing with all the terrain, weather and midges.

The beauty of having such assistance is using them to get a dead deer a few hundred metres up a steep hillside

 

[25 Sharps]

Estate rifle rules , makes it possible for you to supervise someone use your rifle but you have to be there with them supervising and as such ( i think ) it should be you and your insurance that picks up the bill / consequences , if something bad happens?

What has that got to do with him being an observer?!

He’s not shooting.

 

[timbrayford]

I fear that once the sun goes down a cotton wool suit won't comply with The Nightwear (Safety) Regulations 1985 and BS 5722, so I'm not prepared to risk it

Thanks for joining in, but maybe read post #27? It explains the "problem".

It's no problem, just leave the precious staff member behind, in any case when it comes to stalking if you know the ground you can be better off on your own.