.243 advice
- Thread starter jmcgiff0104
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- .243 first rifle rifle
Heym SR20
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What’s all the fuss about rifle being NV compatible. Deer can only legally be shot during daylight and decent glass allows you to shoot well enough.
A novice will not get a night licence to shoot deer after dark. That is a job for an experienced and competent marksman who has a minimum of DSC Level 2.
My advice would be to a find a rifle and scope combination that is simple and fits you well. If you are left handed, get left handed rifles - they are so much easier in the long run, but you may have to shop around a bit.
And forget all those who are mostly target shooters and all the nonsense about long range shooting.
Any normal hunting rifle / scope / ammo combination. Zero so the centre of group is 4cm high at 100m. Bullet will then hit either side of the cross out 200m. If its further than two football pitches away develop the skills to get in close. That’s the fun of deer stalking.
A novice will not get a night licence to shoot deer after dark. That is a job for an experienced and competent marksman who has a minimum of DSC Level 2.
My advice would be to a find a rifle and scope combination that is simple and fits you well. If you are left handed, get left handed rifles - they are so much easier in the long run, but you may have to shop around a bit.
And forget all those who are mostly target shooters and all the nonsense about long range shooting.
Any normal hunting rifle / scope / ammo combination. Zero so the centre of group is 4cm high at 100m. Bullet will then hit either side of the cross out 200m. If its further than two football pitches away develop the skills to get in close. That’s the fun of deer stalking.
You certainly dont need 120 grain plus to cleanly kill the biggest stags in the UK . selecting the correct bullet design is paramount ( designed to expand in a predictable manner ) weight is not . What many forget is a 100 grain bullet designed for deer will go through both shoulders on a red stag and mostly exit at twice as far out as most folks could or would consider to take them. .
My favourite has become the 100 grain Barnes tTSX. 6.5mm 3300 fps at the muzzle I dont think i have gone "barmy" at all , killed a fair few big gold medal Sika in the Rut with 243 here in Bowland with sub 90 gain bullets ( where we have never been stuck with using a 100 grain yardstick )
Before Scotland got the nod that it was ok to drop the bullet weights down some do you not think it was tested ? Because it 100% was
lets ignore the miss naming fallow bucks as fallow stags eh? probably forgot to proof read I supose ?
People are getting night licences all over Scotland with level 1 and even though i have held level 2 the best part of 20 years ( when it was iffy if you where not told to " gain more experience if it was just the three minimum in the portfolio) . A great amount of head stalkers only have level 1 . If i remember correctly when i read the terms of applying a level one needs another authorised person to vouch for them .
Target shooters get unfair treatment from stalkers ( and a target shooter just means they target shoot not that they are rather good at it ) . A good PRS or similar shooter has to be competent with their wind dope over and through the contours . Like we use the term "stalker " when really they can be an out of condition , noisy and very average at best shooter who might never have planned his way round contours and wind to get into a load of eyes and noses and get in close enough to shoot . Really just a mate of the factor LOL
Some people will still call me a target shooter and i have not attended any true comp or decent rage in decades
A 22lr is probably responsible for more animals taken than any other cartridge. If it were legal, I'd be pretty content with a 223...
Also - it's a fallow buck, not a stag
No.
A raking shot from the rear is likely to be more effective as it has a higher probability of taking out the plexus. I would much rather take that angle than poking a hole through the ribs.
I don't see why a 243 100gr isn't going to blow a hole in a shoulder either. With a sensible bullet a 223 will manage that. Less room for error than a big boomer maybe but I think you are underestimating the power of a centerfire rifle.
If it is for deer I wouldn't get a .243 as firstly it's in my view marginal for big deer and gives less margin for inevitable error on small deer. Go 6.5CM or .308 or .30-06 and shoot 140 - 150 gr bullets. My .243 mates have had bad experiences with copper and are now on .30-06 for more speed and expansion with a copper bullet. Bigger holes, deader deer. I am on .30-06 with 150gr soft point Sako lead and haven't ruined anything yet.
I don’t buy it.
Certainly not for smaller deer, I shoot .257 80 gr copper bullets at bottom end .243 speeds and they kill small deer (roe and muntjac) very, very well.
I wouldn’t hesitate to use on fallow inside 200 yards either.
Deer aren’t bullet proof, put an 80 grain bullet at 2000 fps plus through their vitals and they are going to die.
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That's absolutely fine 25 Sherpa, I just like making bigger holes in things, no argument with your chioice, just personal preference.
But you’re advising the OP that .243 is marginal, it’s not, especially for smaller deer.
Don’t get me wrong I have a deer rifle for each day of the week, .243, 25-45, 6.5x55, .308, 7.5x55, .280 and when I want to make a big hole 45-70! Plus I’m about to put in for a 300 PRC.
But the .243 will kill deer quite happily all day long. Also, being a mouse gun, it will not lead to a flinch for a new shooter like a big gun could.
Bigger holes don’t make deader deer, dead is dead.
So my concern is based on far more experienced stalkers than me who are friends being very unhappy with copper in .243, having had bad experiences and now stopped using it. I was always .308 (as I prefer making bigger holes!) but they are now on.30-06 copper with light copper bullets. I am on 150 gr lead .30-06, having not been happy with Geco 139 copper (accuracy not killing power). No issues - if you are happy and you kill them clean we are all happy.
Yet to play with copper in the .243 as I’ve only just got it, mainly for foxing, but as I say, 80 gr on the .257 are working very well. One of my buddies who shoots hundreds of deer a year uses 80 gr in .243 with no issues though.
If your friends struggled my guess is they were using factory ammo in short barrelled .243 rifles. My 25 is pushing an 80 gr bullet at 3120 fps. A 24” .243 can push the same bullet, albeit 13 thou narrower, 300 fps faster.
Also the Scottish government have elected to reduce the minimum weight for all deer to 80 gr, which they won’t have done without research.
In short, I think your concern about .243, based on third party experience is probably a little misplaced.
PS. I found the same with geco lead free in .308, accuracy was lacking. But I generally reload and copper (barnes and yew tree) accuracy is excellent.
Well put and sensible - I would still rather make big holes with heavier bullets than do the minimum but I am not preaching and am not saying you shouldn’t use .243, just suggesting that maybe a novice might want a bit more knock down power for comfort. Both my original sources shoot a lot of deer and both are not happy with killing power of .243 copper and have changed calibre. One is a reloader the other uses factory.
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I faced exactly this choice when I got my FAC a year ago, with a similar budget. I was fortunate to try a few rifles of peodple who were taking me stalking (inc Tikka, Sako and Blaser) and ultimately stretched my budget to buy a used Sauer 404 setup in .243. at £2.5k, which included a Stalon moderator, Zeiss Scope and bi-pod). Its been excellent to date and suits me well. I was recently in Scotland on Roebucks (with a professional stalker) but had to pass over the opportunity for my first stag, as I definitely wasn't confident to take the shot with the lighter round. I have now put in for my .308 variation and will source a reasonably priced nearly new barrel.
The fact that there are so many more 22 LR guns ( pistol and rifle) makes the statement 100% correct . However once we get away from small game, rats and birds the credible humane use of 22rf is more than in question .
More nations and states globally allow 223 for large game such as deer than dont but that is not really to be taken as a recommendation of its use on large game. I do shoot 223 but there is good justification why in the UK that we stop at CWD, Muntjac in England and allow only Roe in Scotland
If a uk government passed 223 rem for all uk deer the guys at DTUK would be far busier
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