Steel shot being ingested

[Smellydog]

I have NEVER claimed to be lead free, I use wherever there is no alternative and I will use the alternatives as they become available.

There are lead free target loads for clays, why haven't you switched?


What birds die of from any POSSIBLE lead contamination is miniscule compared to other factors that oddly enough very little change is a happening.
What I do know is that for about 400 years man has been discharging lead from firearms and pretty much all wildlife is still in existence!

On that basis I choose to not yield to those hell bent on stopping me doing what I am doing.

I choose to be vocal about it. Do you really think I'm alone?? Do you think I'm the minority? Actually I think im the majority.
None of the shoots around me have switched, non of the clay grounds has made a switch mandatory.
I'd rather tell the public the truth, not blow roses up their arses in a vein attempt to appease them.
I'd rather tell them, " this is what we do, this is how we do it, like it, come and join us, dont like it, **** off".

 

[jall55]

[

Judging by some of the feedback about the article on social media I think we need far more articles like that about the evidence, which is clear, and that there is no worldwide conspiracy against shooting since the 1870s just because scientists have been studying and evidencing the impact of lead shot ingestion in birds.

What feedback ?

 

[Mickeydredd]

Why the concern regarding metallic implants and MRIs and it’s not the first time I’ve been asked this?
When I got the first duodenal stent, the hospital had to go back to the Korean manufacturer to confirm the composition of the stent before the radiology team would allow an MRI scan to be carried out.

The concern is that an MRI scanner will rip anything metal from inside your body to the outside of your body as it is a very powerful magnet. The clue is in the name......magnetic resonance imaging

Also, of somewhat less concern is that it can distort the image quality of the scan.

 

[Dunwaters]

There are lead free target loads for clays, why haven't you switched?

Because they’re not readily available here yet. When they are, I will.

What birds die of from any POSSIBLE lead contamination is miniscule compared to other factors that oddly enough very little change is a happening.
What I do know is that for about 400 years man has been discharging lead from firearms and pretty much all wildlife is still in existence!

On that basis I choose to not yield to those hell bent on stopping me doing what I am doing.

The only thing that anyone is trying to do is to stop you and everyone else involved in shooting from unnecessarily contaminating the environment with a known toxin.
The only reason you’ve given for resisting the change is because you are a bit of a contrarian and don’t believe that the lead shot that you personally distribute with gay abandon causes any damage.
So you won’t change because you don’t want to.
That’s a pretty selfish position to take.

I choose to be vocal about it. Do you really think I'm alone??

No, unfortunately.

Do you think I'm the minority?

Yes, you’re very definitely in the minority when you refute the science. Theres a few more that have legitimate concerns about the alternatives, but you are definitely in the minority.

Actually I think im the majority.

Can you produce some evidence to support this statement please?
I promise you that I’ll read it.

None of the shoots around me have switched, non of the clay grounds has made a switch mandatory.

None of ours have either, which doesn’t mean that it won’t happen.
We have a lead ban in designated areas, so far its not being enforced, but that will change.

I'd rather tell the public the truth, not blow roses up their arses in a vein attempt to appease them.
I'd rather tell them, " this is what we do, this is how we do it, like it, come and join us, dont like it, **** off".

You’ve certainly been doing that, but your version of the truth is based on denying the harm both you personally and the shooting community cause along with denying the science and adding in a blank refusal to change.

Here’s an example of how we act, 6 of us shot a 50 bird sporting layout this morning, in old money that’s 3.125Lbs of lead per person, times six = 18.75Lbs, more than a stone of lead for one group in one morning.
That’s the scale of the problem we’re creating, and before you go getting all excited about hypocrisy, it’s an approved ground with a lead containment and recovery program.
Ultimately this is going to be decided democratically, but there are an awful lot more of “ them” than there are of “ us”.
How do you think that’s going to pan out?

 

[LuckyEddie]

The concern is that an MRI scanner will rip anything metal from inside your body to the outside of your body as it is a very powerful magnet. The clue is in the name......magnetic resonance imaging

Also, of somewhat less concern is that it can distort the image quality of the scan.

Yep been told that many a time about the metal flying out of my body, but something BASC seem to over look!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

[

What feedback ?

Feedback on Facebook. As regards your concerns about steel shot ingested by birds and feedback to your threads on here and PW, have your concerns been adequately addressed?

 

[Liveonce]

Do you really think I'm alone?? Do you think I'm the minority? Actually I think im the majority.

Have to agree with you, it looks very much like the voluntary transition has been a complete flop, did BASC not do yet another survey not that long ago, yet no results have been published as far as I know, may be because they did not like what they were told.

The sceptic in me actually thinks BASC want and need the HSE / Government to ban lead shot.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Feedback on Facebook. As regards your concerns about steel shot ingested by birds and feedback to your threads on here and PW, have your concerns been adequately addressed?

It’s the concern that steel shot could be missed when eating and for whatever reason the person needs to go for a MRI.
If that shot is in the stomach, duodenum or intestines and moves 10cm or 4” in old money, it can have very serious consequences.
I know first hand the implications of a hole in your duodenum.

 

[Liveonce]

Ultimately this is going to be decided democratically, but there are an awful lot more of “ them” than there are of “ us”.
How do you think that’s going to pan out?

How’s that work, do we get to vote for who works in the HSE? or on their proposal when issued in September?

 

[Smellydog]

Because they’re not readily available here yet. When they are, I will.

The only thing that anyone is trying to do is to stop you and everyone else involved in shooting from unnecessarily contaminating the environment with a known toxin.
The only reason you’ve given for resisting the change is because you are a bit of a contrarian and don’t believe that the lead shot that you personally distribute with gay abandon causes any damage.
So you won’t change because you don’t want to.
That’s a pretty selfish position to take.

No, unfortunately.

Yes, you’re very definitely in the minority when you refute the science. Theres a few more that have legitimate concerns about the alternatives, but you are definitely in the minority.

Can you produce some evidence to support this statement please?
I promise you that I’ll read it.

None of ours have either, which doesn’t mean that it won’t happen.
We have a lead ban in designated areas, so far its not being enforced, but that will change.

You’ve certainly been doing that, but your version of the truth is based on denying the harm both you personally and the shooting community cause along with denying the science and adding in a blank refusal to change.

Here’s an example of how we act, 6 of us shot a 50 bird sporting layout this morning, in old money that’s 3.125Lbs of lead per person, times six = 18.75Lbs, more than a stone of lead for one group in one morning.
That’s the scale of the problem we’re creating, and before you go getting all excited about hypocrisy, it’s an approved ground with a lead containment and recovery program.
Ultimately this is going to be decided democratically, but there are an awful lot more of “ them” than there are of “ us”.
How do you think that’s going to pan out?

You've made your choice and I've made mine.
Well actually I haven't!
If I were a rich man I would stock pile the lovely stuff.
Good luck to you.
We are all gonna need some...
Oh, the science thing, scientists dont always get it right, depends who's paying.
ATB .

 

[jall55]

Feedback on Facebook. As regards your concerns about steel shot ingested by birds and feedback to your threads on here and PW, have your concerns been adequately addressed?

I dont know what you are thinking i should think about the link to the article on Facebook Conor - it looks more like the same as on here ? I can only read some of the posts as im not on facebook

 

[Smellydog]

Might do some casting later...

 

[jall55]

Might do some casting later...View attachment 369476

Reminds me of when i was a kid - my family built a house and me and my brother and sister would melt down lead and create all sorts of things - we would also bake clay animals - and melt plastic and drop it on nettles and docks until they set on fire - happy happy days !
My brother actually wrote to Father Christmas and asked for a hammer - which he brought - he then managed to hit himself in the head with it and went to hospital - he was 7 hahahahahah
To live it all again would be amazing but it all up in the memory banks !
Switch the PC off SD and go get some foxes - im out on the moor tonight looking after Curlew

 

[Dunwaters]

You've made your choice and I've made mine.
Well actually I haven't!
If I were a rich man I would stock pile the lovely stuff.
Good luck to you.
We are all gonna need some...
Oh, the science thing, scientists dont always get it right, depends who's paying.
ATB .

Admit it, your biggest problem with a lead ban is that someone is telling you that you can’t do something you like doing.
Admit it.

We both know that if there was no ban in prospect and I gave you a bag of steel or bismuth you’d have had a go.


We’ ll both survive the transition, so will shooting.
Ahh go on!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I dont know what you are thinking i should think about the link to the article on Facebook Conor - it looks more like the same as on here ? I can only read some of the posts as im not on facebook

No worries. It's a time hoover! As regards your concerns about steel shot ingested by birds and feedback to your threads on here and PW, have your concerns been adequately addressed?

 

[Smellydog]

We both know that if there was no ban in prospect and I gave you a bag of steel or bismuth you’d have had a go

Why do you assume I haven't tried both?
Bismuth wounded to many birds.
The steel was uninspiring and useless in my muzzleloaders so I did the right thing, returned to the natural choice, just like my Norwegian cousins .

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Yep been told that many a time about the metal flying out of my body, but something BASC seem to over look!

Rather bizarre that you persist with that old chestnut when the facts from medical experts were explained directly to you on this forum last year and probably previously.

To repeat in case others are misinformed by your comments here again is the expert medical opinion again:

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

Also, worth noting that there have been no recorded incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in Denmark or USA where steel shot has been used for decades for live quarry shooting.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

The concern is that an MRI scanner will rip anything metal from inside your body to the outside of your body as it is a very powerful magnet. The clue is in the name......magnetic resonance imaging

Also, of somewhat less concern is that it can distort the image quality of the scan.

See comment above.

 

[Dunwaters]

Why do you assume I haven't tried both?
Bismuth wounded to many birds.
The steel was uninspiring and useless in my muzzleloaders so I did the right thing, returned to the natural choice, just like my Norwegian cousins .

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

The sceptic in me actually thinks BASC want and need the HSE / Government to ban lead shot.

That is certainly not the case and why would you even think that? BASC has made its position clear to the HSE in last year's consultation and I have posted that umpteen times on this forum. Here it is again:

• BASC is opposed to any further regulation on the use of lead ammunition in the UK.
• Regulations are already in place to mitigate risks to wildfowl from the use of lead shot in wetlands.
• There is clear evidence that lead shot poses a risk to a wide range of bird species in terrestrial habitats and a voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting with shotguns is reducing these risks.
• The shooting sector must be allowed time to develop non-lead shotgun ammunition due to a world shortage of components and the need for manufacturers and assemblers to source new machinery to produce lead shot alternatives and biodegradable wads for all shotgun calibers.
• Lead in game meat is potentially a risk to human health via secondary exposure and government guidance and market forces are managing risks via best practice.
• Lead exposure pathways are not conclusive for livestock, soil, soil organisms, plants, and surface waters; and current legal and regulatory frameworks are in place to manage risks.

BASC response to HSE lead ammunition consultation

Read BASC's response to the Health and Safety Executive's socio-economic consultation on proposals to restrict the use of lead ammunition.

basc.org.uk