Labour using firearm licensing to pay for knife crime prevention

And if you believe any of that crap from Labour, you may as well believe there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.

None of the parties show any consideration for the countryside, country pursuits, farming, shooting etc. They are all full of promises, that they will break in a heart beat. They are as a rule professional liars all of them. And Labour claim to be able to put the country back on its feet........................has everyone forgotten the comment from the last labour government, when Conservatives took over. " Dont bother looking for any money left over as we have spent it all".

I have little faith in any of them. But, despite what some may say about Farage, he at least tells it how it is.
 
As per post earlier.

I think it is little more than a combination of well meaning lefty social worker types coming up with naive ideas about yuff crime.
Followed by attempt to pay for it out the quagmire of police financing.
Net result police forces have no incentive to become more efficient as they become a revenue generator for social services.
In the same way speed cameras are operated by the paramilitary branch of revenue collection.

Just a glimpse of life under Liebore.
 
I wouldn't have an issue covering the cost of my FAC and SGC as it only seems fair. My problem is with them linking it with knife crime. It appears to just be an anti gun statement which will please a lot of their supporters. They obviously feel strongly about shooting to be bringing it up at this stage, who knows what will happen if they get into power.
 
As a Labpir supporter, I think you have just hit upon one of the inconsistencies of your personal politics. If you want a government to respect the individual's rights and freedoms, then a lurch to the right is precisely what you need.

And if you believe any of that crap from Labour, you may as well believe there are fairies at the bottom of your garden.

None of the parties show any consideration for the countryside, country pursuits, farming, shooting etc. They are all full of promises, that they will break in a heart beat. They are as a rule professional liars all of them. And Labour claim to be able to put the country back on its feet........................has everyone forgotten the comment from the last labour government, when Conservatives took over. " Dont bother looking for any money left over as we have spent it all".

I have little faith in any of them. But, despite what some may say about Farage, he at least tells it how it is.
No party can be a perfect fit for how each individual thinks things should be, so it is unavoidable that there will be inconsistencies. I believe that Labour will protect the health service, police service and the environment better than the right which is at the moment trying to syphon off as much tax payers money into their own pockets as possible. I do believe that individuals should contribute to society - that means paying taxes. Don't like doing it and I would like the system to be fairer - e.g. stopping the super rich offshoring their wealth - but its necessary.

Regards to Labour crashing the economy - actually, that was a global financial crisis originating in the US housing market and exacerbated by the City. The Tory party used it as an opportunity to impose austerity and run down the NHS so that they can open it up to privatisation. Currently the main issue is the cluster F*ck of the Truss/ Kwateng 49 day disaster zone. The Tory parties lack of internal discipline currently renders it incapable of political leadership.

I agree that rural communities are a forgotten minority and democracy is not serving its needs at the moment. Farage is an amazing orator and he will say what ever he thinks serves his own needs. He is very good at providing simple solutions to complex problems and fading away when it comes to delivery. If countryside issues were the only thing I cared about, Reform might be worth considering, but he is currently engaged in popularist politics, making immigration a key policy point when there are other issues that are equally important that need addressing. At least the Labour had a fairly good record of reducing legal immigration by negotiating with the French to close down the Saungat camp under Blunket so I have a degree of faith in them getting to the root cause of the current cross channel migrant issue.

At the end of the day, Labour are likely to form the next government so I think that it is important that we get a fair deal - it shouldn't be up to the largely rural shooting community to fund what is largely an inner city problem - so we should be working with our organisations and our MPs to get the message across.
 
I wouldn't have an issue covering the cost of my FAC and SGC as it only seems fair. My problem is with them linking it with knife crime. It appears to just be an anti gun statement which will please a lot of their supporters. They obviously feel strongly about shooting to be bringing it up at this stage, who knows what will happen if they get into power.
I agree it's fair to pay the cost -and I agree with what you say about the link between firearms and knife crime. My concern is that to have money for the knife crime reduction policy they would have to run the licensing at a profit. If the fees were too high it would be prohibitive to lower income entrants to the shooting community - the last thing we need is to be an even smaller minority.
Animal rights organisations have managed to deeply embed themselves in all the main political parties - so I do believe looking to the future we have an up hill struggle.
 
The police wanted the certificates, after Harry Roberts shot some of their colleagues, but making the rules and then charging for their expenses seems like license to print money to me.
 
Ban cars they kill more people than knives ,ban deer they kill motorists.
Hang what about actually jailing gun n knife carrying yuffs to remove the problem 🤔🤔
 
I have thought for some time that it is pointless voting for what you want, because you will never get it, far better to vote to avoid what you don't want. The last thing I want is more of the creeping paralysis of Socialism that we have had ever since WW2.
 
No party can be a perfect fit for how each individual thinks things should be, so it is unavoidable that there will be inconsistencies. I believe that Labour will protect the health service, police service and the environment better than the right which is at the moment trying to syphon off as much tax payers money into their own pockets as possible.
There’s certainly an inconsistency here. The right, as you see it (and ignoring the fact that on some of your views, you are on the right) has no interest in trousering taxpayers’ money, because that is the function of the left. The right naturally wants to avoid paying in as much tax as possible, because that is harmful to them and harmful to society too. Both the past two Labour leaders have trousered millions personally from the taxpayer, yet you’re more upset about a conspiracy theory. Starmer’s so rich he’s had to have his own personal legislation to permit the size of his pension. Oddly, Labour policy is to limit the size of everybody else’s pension, but his is not problematic.
I do believe that individuals should contribute to society - that means paying taxes. Don't like doing it and I would like the system to be fairer - e.g. stopping the super rich offshoring their wealth - but its necessary.
I think you have to decide what fair actually means, because your politics on rich people paying more tax has already happened to an extreme level, and the Tories have extended that much further than Labour did.
OK. The richest should pay much more tax than the poorest, but how much more? Twice as much? Ten times as much? What is the number you have in your mind that you think is fair?
The fact is that the top 5% of people by income (people earning slightly more than three times the median wages or five times minimum wage) do pay more than the bottom 5%…about 500 times more. What do you think about that? I honestly don’t think that when one group of people is paying 500 times more tax than another group that is fair, or good for society. The problem in this country is not that the rich are exploiting people, the problem is that most people are very, very unproductive and don’t pull their weight.
Regards to Labour crashing the economy - actually, that was a global financial crisis originating in the US housing market and exacerbated by the City.
That is not a valid understanding. Labour consistently overspent for a decade, including well before the crisis. For example, you can’t blame the US for the shambolic handling of PFI - which was Labour opening up the NHS to privatisation far more than the Tories later did, at massive ongoing cost even now. The losses to the UK were our own, they weren’t something from the US. A Labour chancellor publicly and personally praised over an extended period a man who thought a 16 billion unsecured loan to a Russian was a good investment. The worst of the financial crisis happened under Labour. RBS had the biggest corporate loss in the history of the world, including the Americans. Labour started in power with a national debt of about 35% of GDP and ended with one of about 85%, and a further 11% deficit each year. You cannot keep a straight face and say that the money was well spent or achieved anything.
The Tory party used it as an opportunity to impose austerity and run down the NHS so that they can open it up to privatisation.
Here you’re starting with a set of beliefs and forcing them onto a narrative, rather than forming your opinion around what actually happened. There never was any austerity. Public spending kept rising throughout.
Currently the main issue is the cluster F*ck of the Truss/ Kwateng 49 day disaster zone.
No it isn’t, that is a flagrant scapegoating, by those actually responsible for numerous serious errors. Truss/ Kwarteng had a tiny effect on anything.
The Tory parties lack of internal discipline currently renders it incapable of political leadership.

I agree that rural communities are a forgotten minority and democracy is not serving its needs at the moment. Farage is an amazing orator and he will say what ever he thinks serves his own needs. He is very good at providing simple solutions to complex problems and fading away when it comes to delivery.
If you think that last sentence doesn’t apply with greater force to Labour, then you’ve really got your head in the sand.
If countryside issues were the only thing I cared about, Reform might be worth considering, but he is currently engaged in popularist politics, making immigration a key policy point when there are other issues that are equally important that need addressing. At least the Labour had a fairly good record of reducing legal immigration by negotiating with the French to close down the Saungat camp under Blunket so I have a degree of faith in them getting to the root cause of the current cross channel migrant issue.
Eh? Net migration in 1997: 48,000. Net migration in 2010: 256,000. Explain to me how a 430% increase is actually a decrease. I’m having difficulty with your reasoning here.
At the end of the day, Labour are likely to form the next government so I think that it is important that we get a fair deal - it shouldn't be up to the largely rural shooting community to fund what is largely an inner city problem - so we should be working with our organisations and our MPs to get the message across.
And with our votes. Except, for some reason which eludes reason, you won’t.
 
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Honestly I’m not against full recovery as it’s not fair for the tax to subside gun licences but the money should go to the police who incur the cost? I mean I don’t particularly want to pay more but it also seems a reasonable position if we get a proper service
I disagree, we gain nothing from a licence, they were introduced for the benefit of public safety and it was agreed that part of the cost would be covered by the public purse. A convicted criminal doesn't pay the full cost of his arrest and prosecution, why should the most law abiding people in society have to pay full cost for no benefit
 
I disagree, we gain nothing from a licence, they were introduced for the benefit of public safety and it was agreed that part of the cost would be covered by the public purse. A convicted criminal doesn't pay the full cost of his arrest and prosecution, why should the most law abiding people in society have to pay full cost for no benefit
Fair point I’m just not that bothered if the renewal fee goes up to £140 or whatever as it’s a small part of what I spend on shooting and even the least wealthy shot is going to spend a lot more on ammunition than that in 5 yrs. I wish they went with ten year licences though then it would cost more or less the same??
 
In the labour manifesto it states that it will introduce a knife crime deduction program funded by recovering the full cost of fire licensing.

As a labour supporter I am extremely disappointed on this matter because

1) It is wrong that law abiding citizens penalised by directly fund Anti crime
2) it will make gun ownership unaffordable for people in lower incomes - a betrayal of the “working class”
3) it is impossible to find the said program in less licensing is run at a profit- ie more that the full cost of licensing is recovered.

On the plus side as a full paying we may get the quality of service that we deserve.

The Tory government has been in too long and needs to go and a lurch further right is not what we need, but I think we desperately need our shooting organisations to step up and challenge this as I shudder to think what the full cost is.
Collectively we need to get our act together and say to an incoming labour government that now that they come to mention it the whole administration of facs and sgcs is an archaic paper based system, over 100 years old with multiple police forces expensively duplicating each others work. Don't really on clueless shooting organisations either, its disgraceful the way that they have already thrown in the towel on lead shot even without any restrictions being placed before parliament.
 
I wouldn't have an issue covering the cost of my FAC and SGC as it only seems fair. My problem is with them linking it with knife crime. It appears to just be an anti gun statement which will please a lot of their supporters. They obviously feel strongly about shooting to be bringing it up at this stage, who knows what will happen if they get into power.
Please send your two gold bars (Kilo's preferred) no change given.
 
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Fair point I’m just not that bothered if the renewal fee goes up to £140 or whatever as it’s a small part of what I spend on shooting and even the least wealthy shot is going to spend a lot more on ammunition than that in 5 yrs. I wish they went with ten year licences though then it would cost more or less the same??
I'm pleased you've got the spare money - but please don't let that lead you to overlook the important principle that firearms ownership remains a right, and the certification process is in no sense of benefit to certificate-holders except in as much as it is intendend to benfit the general public (of which shooting folk are also members).
Arguments for 'full cost recovery' should be seen for what they are, even by those who could afford it.
 
No party can be a perfect fit for how each individual thinks things should be, so it is unavoidable that there will be inconsistencies. I believe that Labour will protect the health service, police service and the environment better than the right which is at the moment trying to syphon off as much tax payers money into their own pockets as possible. I do believe that individuals should contribute to society - that means paying taxes. Don't like doing it and I would like the system to be fairer - e.g. stopping the super rich offshoring their wealth - but its necessary.

Regards to Labour crashing the economy - actually, that was a global financial crisis originating in the US housing market and exacerbated by the City. The Tory party used it as an opportunity to impose austerity and run down the NHS so that they can open it up to privatisation. Currently the main issue is the cluster F*ck of the Truss/ Kwateng 49 day disaster zone. The Tory parties lack of internal discipline currently renders it incapable of political leadership.

I agree that rural communities are a forgotten minority and democracy is not serving its needs at the moment. Farage is an amazing orator and he will say what ever he thinks serves his own needs. He is very good at providing simple solutions to complex problems and fading away when it comes to delivery. If countryside issues were the only thing I cared about, Reform might be worth considering, but he is currently engaged in popularist politics, making immigration a key policy point when there are other issues that are equally important that need addressing. At least the Labour had a fairly good record of reducing legal immigration by negotiating with the French to close down the Saungat camp under Blunket so I have a degree of faith in them getting to the root cause of the current cross channel migrant issue.

At the end of the day, Labour are likely to form the next government so I think that it is important that we get a fair deal - it shouldn't be up to the largely rural shooting community to fund what is largely an inner city problem - so we should be working with our organisations and our MPs to get the message across.
Labour will have no weight behind any illegal immigration. As I live very near where these boats tend to land, its not going to be easy to stop them. Labour will stop the Rewanda scheme, and replace it with WHAT??? Closing down one camp in France made NO difference to the situation what so ever.

Either way I wouldn't trust any of them, Conservative or Labour. But especially Labour. That would be tantamount to putting a half starved fox in a hen house, and expecting it to not kill any chickens.
I met Nigel Farage over a year ago in a local Sea food shop, near to where I live. He was buying bait to go sea fishing. Straight talking, and was very interested in country matters and was in favour of hunting, shooting and fishing. I know where I am voting this time.
 
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