Gloucestershire Police - Requiring Training before Shotgun Certificate Grant

[User00056]

Perhaps someone can explain what to powerful is?

For heavens sake. Isn't it obvious?

'Too powerful' makes things 'too dead'.

I really shouldn't need to point out stuff like this

 

[ruger77]

I had a handful of lessons at my local clay ground before I applied for my certificate after four lessons they were happy with my progress so lent me a shot gun when I returned it all helped when I applied for my certificate

 

[mike243]

Crikey, if cleaning guns were a requirement for certification, mine would have been revoked years ago

mine too

 

[Bo Diddley]

Just goes to show how times change, I'm 58 in a few weeks and I got my school headmaster to be my referee on my application, the policeman who came to do the home visit in a police car was fine about everything...Imagine that, a time when we never had hysteria about a country lad enjoying fieldsports....

Some organisation needs to challenge these sorts of decisions, for everyone's sake.

 

[3595wilk]

GlosPol are just totally under resourced, which leads to poor decision making. I'm lucky that I live in TVP land, right on the border with Gloucestershire, so administratively, have all FAC decisions made by TVP. But I do have a few permissions over there on the dark side.......so have been exposed to GlosPol decision making at its finest.

One example from a couple of years ago, occurred when I asked for land to be reassessed; as according to the national database it was cleared for .22LR use only. I wanted to use WMR.

They point blank refused to engage, telling me to address any queries to them via my FEO.......and finally was told they would not reassess and stuck with stating it was only suitable for LR.......while in my estimation it's safe for CF......and at the time of asking, I was on a closed ticket.

Luckily, my FEO is a pragmatist, and forwarded me the email chain, so I had contact details for the GlopPol decision maker.

I then asked why they had then decided to issue a FAC for HMR ownership to the land controller on a closed condition for that specific piece of land....if it was only suitable for .22LR.

Radio silence for about 6 weeks, then an admission that they had made an administrative error and WMR was fine too obviously........but no, we won't come out and reassess for CF use.......we were right about that.......

I won't bore you with the saga of an acquaintance who is still awaiting his FAC from GlosPol.......and the hoops he has had to jump through as well as the obvious blockers they have attempted on his application journey........I do hope he feels able to share publicly once it's issued......just bloody mindedness at its finest.

Knowing how to clean a shotgun as a key indicator of competence for ownership, seems about right for a successful application in GlosPol.......

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Hi All,

Has anyone else come across a requirement by Gloucs Police to complete "Training" before they will grant you a shotgun certificate? Just been asked about this as they have asked someone to obtain training before they will grant his certificate. I am lead to believe the training is basically Ian Coley's Starter pack for £450. I am not suggesting there is a link between Ian's and Gloucs FEOs but seems very odd to specify such a requirement which is no where in the legislation.

I have already messaged @Conor O'Gorman to flag it with BASC and emailed them for advice so just seeing if anyone else on here has been subjected to a ludicrous request like this.

Ta D-I

Thanks I am looking into it.

 

[Ratel]

All this nonsense makes me laugh. In my day the shotguns and a .22 rimfire resided on a rack on the wall in the farmhouse, ammo was on the mantle piece. Us 14 year olds had gun licences and were shown how to use the guns. One short demo, shown where the cleaning stuff was and told to be careful. We would walk in take a gun and go shoot rabbits or pigeons on the corn shucks. Never any problem happened, was it just that we were more disciplined/grown up or responsible than the youth of today, or was it that in four years we would be in one of the Services. I must add that my Grandfather/keeper had already drilled me at 12.

 

[Tazz]

Hi

Gloucester Firearms Licensing Team seem to be a law unto to themselves (as in not backed by The Law ye and I know/read) - how do I know, well apparently .300WM and .375H&H are 'too powerful for Boar' in Gloucester.............................

L

Must be very delicate strain of Boar in Gloucestershire then

 

[timbrayford]

The person in question has been out with me several times and I’d say 90-95% of his clay shooting will be when he comes with me to a clay ground.

The FEO also said he needs to no how to “clean and dismantle” a shotgun

Not required by the firearms act. In fact our firearms laws are a complete mess, on the one hand no requirement for training and competence on the other S1 in particular treats us like primary school kids with all its ridiculous bureaucracy!

 

[paul o']

The gun skills I have seen over the years in all types of events I glad they are requiring it! wish all would follow there example ?

 

[Liveonce]

The gun skills I have seen over the years in all types of events I glad they are requiring it! wish all would follow there example ?

Rubbish they should apply the law not make it up, otherwise where do you draw the line.
The individual in question looks to have gained experience by attending a clay shoot nothing in law states you need to do a course to acquire a shotgun.

We have likely all seen poor gun handling over the years, I assume when you see such you quietly talk to the individual concerned. Safety is the responsibility of all and shooting is one of the safest sports to participate in, hence insurance is so inexpensive and accidents very rare.

 

[Nimrod1960]

None of that is a requirement.
This is the kind of thing that will wear shooting down until it vanishes .

Its idiots obtaining guns and acting like prats with no thought for common sense or safety that will do for shooting.
I would rather be like the scandi’s and have to demonstrate safety and a modicum of proficiency than be like the US.
What complex potentially lethal machinery would you operate without any instruction or training ?
I am all for individual freedom and rights but rights have to be balanced by responsibility.

 

[Liveonce]

Its idiots obtaining guns and acting like prats with no thought for common sense or safety that will do for shooting.
I would rather be like the scandi’s and have to demonstrate safety and a modicum of proficiency than be like the US.
What complex potentially lethal machinery would you operate without any instruction or training ?
I am all for individual freedom and rights but rights have to be balanced by responsibility.

How many documented example of these idiots can you give? Plenty buy a chainsaw every year without instruction or training, even a kitchen knife.

Why do existing gun owners think they know best? Then want additional barriers into entering the sport.
likely anybody applying for a firearm has the common sense to understand the responsibility that comes with it.

So to get a shotgun we make up the law must do a course £450

For range use we have the NRA safe shooters card.

then for applications for a centerfire to shoot foxes £500 course and minimum one years mentoring.

then for deer shooting DSC1 and DSC2 and minimum of one years mentoring.

Is that really the sort of way we want it to go, if it ain’t broken don’t fix it.


“certificate. I am lead to believe the training is basically Ian Coley's Starter pack for £450”

There are plenty of commercial clay shooting grounds and clay clubs that will give basic training for a lot less than £450 sounds like they have done deal with Ian Coleys.

 

[paul o']

Rubbish they should apply the law not make it up, otherwise where do you draw the line.
The individual in question looks to have gained experience by attending a clay shoot nothing in law states you need to do a course to acquire a shotgun.

We have likely all seen poor gun handling over the years, I assume when you see such you quietly talk to the individual concerned. Safety is the responsibility of all and shooting is one of the safest sports to participate in, hence insurance is so inexpensive and accidents very rare.

Then make it law ! As to rubbish yeh it's bolx and yes iv had words with many over the last 40odd years and been at both ends of stupidity from experts

 

[Rake Aboot]

Its idiots obtaining guns and acting like prats with no thought for common sense or safety that will do for shooting.
I would rather be like the scandi’s and have to demonstrate safety and a modicum of proficiency than be like the US.
What complex potentially lethal machinery would you operate without any instruction or training ?
I am all for individual freedom and rights but rights have to be balanced by responsibility.

I don’t know anyone who’s obtained guns and acted like an idiot so it’s maybe not an actual issue really.

Making up rules to suit themselves is an erosion of our rights though

 

[timbrayford]

How many documented example of these idiots can you give? Plenty buy a chainsaw every year without instruction or training, even a kitchen knife.

Why do existing gun owners think they know best? Then want additional barriers into entering the sport.
likely anybody applying for a firearm has the common sense to understand the responsibility that comes with it.

So to get a shotgun we make up the law must do a course £450

For range use we have the NRA safe shooters card.

then for applications for a centerfire to shoot foxes £500 course and minimum one years mentoring.

then for deer shooting DSC1 and DSC2 and minimum of one years mentoring.

Is that really the sort of way we want it to go, if it ain’t broken don’t fix it.


“certificate. I am lead to believe the training is basically Ian Coley's Starter pack for £450”

There are plenty of commercial clay shooting grounds and clay clubs that will give basic training for a lot less than £450 sounds like they have done deal with Ian Coleys.

I've got an NRA safe shooter card, it cost me nothing

 

[NoIDeer]

Anyone know the numbers of injuries caused by the non intentional discharge of firearms over the last whatever period. It will be a very small number.

These barriers to entry look to me like they are a deliberate attempt to stop normal well adjusted people getting firearms?
As a nation we seem to be behaving like rabbits in car headlights and watching our leaders let the place turn to rat ****.

 

[Liveonce]

Then make it law ! As to rubbish yeh it's bolx and yes iv had words with many over the last 40odd years and been at both ends of stupidity from experts

I think we will agree to disagree, cannot see why it needs to be law for someone entering the sport to have to pay for a £450 course in addition to what may one day soon be full cost recovery for a shotgun certificate £500 and then what £100 for GP report.

Plenty safely enter the sport of clay pigeon shooting by going a long to a ground with a friend who has a gun and lean that way, given the months it takes to process new certificate applications they have plenty of time to gain safely experience. Just as a new member of a HO approved rifle club do a probationary period before becoming full member and applying for a FAC and if required a NRA safe shooters card.

 

[Donkey Basher]

I understand why people get worked up about the “right” to have a gun. However I have seen some utterly terrible gun handling over the years, which makes me question wether their should not be some basic safe handling requirement.
Or at least a demonstration that the individual understands the lethality of the weapon they are asking to posses.

Probably the worst gun handling I have ever witnessed was at a Surrey Police charity clay shoot at BSG some years back - there were teams & individuals from police forces around the country. One recollection in particular was a rather large gent from a constabulary ‘up north’ who had a semi auto & while waiting at a stand for his turn rested the stock on the ground with his crossed arms on the muzzle & the whole thing tipped back towards him - breech closed & no safety flag in sight. They walk among us.

 

[25 Sharps]

I have no issue with, have you been out with a mate or someone shooting?
Have you got experience of shooting both at a clay range and rough shooting (if that’s what you want to)?
But insisting they have to complete a course with a ridiculous cost no…… even the £20 BASC thing they do at a game fair I could sort of accept reluctantly just as does this person understand safety & etiquette bit but yeah expecting them to do an expensive course just no……

WTF has shooting etiquette got to do with safe gun handling?!