FORGED FIREARMS AND SHOTGUN CERTIFICATES

[sikamalc]

It has come to our attention that there have been a number of attempts to purchase firearms from individuals, using forged certificates, not on this site, but in certain parts of the UK. Whilst this is still uncommon, it is down to the seller to ensure that anyone purchasing or attempting to purchase a firearm is genuine, and has the legal right to obtain it.

It goes without saying that attempting to obtain a weapon using a forged certificate is illegal, and if you are in any doubt to the authenticity of a certificate, you should report this to the police straight away. Ask the purchaser what constabulary they are with, and if in doubt check them out first by contacting their FEO. Ask for references too. The shooting world is a fairly small one, and most people will know someone who you can speak to with regards to the buyers name.

If in any doubt refuse the purchase. Do not invite them to your home, and in most instances any transaction should be carried out at your local firearms shop or FEO.

These are rare events, but criminals are always finding ways around the system, and with the ever growing computer systems in place, forgeries are no doubt becoming easier to produce.

 

[Jh1986]

It has come to our attention that there have been a number of attempts to purchase firearms from individuals, using forged certificates. Whilst this is still uncommon, it is down to the seller to ensure that anyone purchasing or attempting to purchase a firearm is genuine, and has the legal right to obtain it.

It goes without saying that attempting to obtain a weapon using a forged certificate is illegal, and if you are in any doubt to the authenticity of a certificate, you should report this to the police straight away. Ask the purchaser what constabulary they are with, and if in doubt check them out first by contacting their FEO. Ask for references too. The shooting world is a fairly small one, and most people will know someone who you can speak to with regards to the buyers name.

If in any doubt refuse the purchase. Do not invite them to your home, and in most instances any transaction should be carried out at your local firearms shop or FEO.

These are rare events, but criminals are always finding ways around the system, and with the ever growing computer systems in place, forgeries are no doubt becoming easier to produce.

Merge
Thread 'FORGED FAC AND SHOTGUN CERTIFICATES' FORGED FAC AND SHOTGUN CERTIFICATES

 

[Jamouk]

And this one

Just had a note from a gun club I belong to advising a note from Local Police force regarding someone selling a shotgun to someone with a forged cert which then ended up getting used in a serious crime ! One to watch out for

 

[timbrayford]

It has come to our attention that there have been a number of attempts to purchase firearms from individuals, using forged certificates, not on this site, but in certain parts of the UK. Whilst this is still uncommon, it is down to the seller to ensure that anyone purchasing or attempting to purchase a firearm is genuine, and has the legal right to obtain it.

It goes without saying that attempting to obtain a weapon using a forged certificate is illegal, and if you are in any doubt to the authenticity of a certificate, you should report this to the police straight away. Ask the purchaser what constabulary they are with, and if in doubt check them out first by contacting their FEO. Ask for references too. The shooting world is a fairly small one, and most people will know someone who you can speak to with regards to the buyers name.

If in any doubt refuse the purchase. Do not invite them to your home, and in most instances any transaction should be carried out at your local firearms shop or FEO.

These are rare events, but criminals are always finding ways around the system, and with the ever growing computer systems in place, forgeries are no doubt becoming easier to produce.

I find it simpler to get my local RFD to sell on commission for me, less money sometimes, but on one occasion far more than I was expecting but no payment, logistics & security issues.

 

[west_meon]

I am in the process of buying a rifle currently from a site member in Scotland. My RFD is in Wales but I live in England. Both seller and I were told that I was to post my FAC to the seller (who is a complete stranger to me), so I have contacted Gwent Police Firearms Department to clarify.

They have said that sending my FAC to the seller is unnecessary, and also poses an unnecessary security risk as it would provide a complete stranger with my full name, address, DOB, photograph, signature, FAC number and a list of all the firearms that I have access to! It is also probably a fair assumption that someone with firearms may also have shotguns. This could then potentially be passed on to a third party either as information or as the original certificate. When I spoke to the FEO afterwards, he also suggested that such a move could be deemed in breach of my FAC conditions should anything go wrong! In addition, you are supposed to keep your FAC secure, and report its loss immediately, but sending it to a complete stranger at the other end of the country is fine!

His direction was for the seller to transfer the rifle to his RFD and as method of transfer write 'sold via RFD transfer'. The rifle is then sent to my RFD via their usual route, and I collect it and put 'Purchased via RFD transfer' on my license.

It appears that sanity has won!

 

[VSS]

I am in the process of buying a rifle currently from a site member in Scotland. My RFD is in Wales but I live in England. Both seller and I were told that I was to post my FAC to the seller (who is a complete stranger to me), so I have contacted Gwent Police Firearms Department to clarify.

They have said that sending my FAC to the seller is unnecessary, and also poses an unnecessary security risk as it would provide a complete stranger with my full name, address, DOB, photograph, signature, FAC number and a list of all the firearms that I have access to! It is also probably a fair assumption that someone with firearms may also have shotguns. This could then potentially be passed on to a third party either as information or as the original certificate. When I spoke to the FEO afterwards, he also suggested that such a move could be deemed in breach of my FAC conditions should anything go wrong! In addition, you are supposed to keep your FAC secure, and report its loss immediately, but sending it to a complete stranger at the other end of the country is fine!

His direction was for the seller to transfer the rifle to his RFD and as method of transfer write 'sold via RFD transfer'. The rifle is then sent to my RFD via their usual route, and I collect it and put 'Purchased via RFD transfer' on my license.

It appears that sanity has won!

Sanity may have won, but nevertheless Gwent police have advised you incorrectly.

 

[west_meon]

Sanity may have won, but nevertheless Gwent police have advised you incorrectly.

Fortunately, I have it on an email! A transfer from English RFD to English RFD last year was done the same way.

The Gwent Police reply said quote : The seller just needs to transfer the gun to his RFD, who in turn can then send to the RFD you'll be using.

 

[west_meon]

Sanity may have won, but nevertheless Gwent police have advised you incorrectly.

In what way?

 

[VSS]

In what way?

The correct legal procedure is for you to first post your FAC to the seller for him to complete the relevant section.
For many years this process has largely been ignored, and people have carried out private transactions by sending the gun to the buyer's rfd, and for that rfd to sign it on to the buyer's certificate. Which to us seems a sensible and safe way of doing things. But it has recently been clamped down on, and most rfds are now following the rules and are reluctant to release the firearm to the buyer unless the certificate has first been completed by the seller, in accordance with the law.

 

[artschool]

The correct legal procedure is for you to first post your FAC to the seller for him to complete the relevant section.
For many years this process has largely been ignored, and people have carried out private transactions by sending the gun to the buyer's rfd, and for that rfd to sign it on to the buyer's certificate. Which to us seems a sensible and safe way of doing things. But it has recently been clamped down on, and most rfds are now following the rules and are reluctant to release the firearm to the buyer unless the certificate has first been completed by the seller, in accordance with the law.

Interesting.

My own addition to the thread is that the last time I privately sold a rifle i contacted the fao of the purchaser and they were happy to confirm who they were and that they had the authority to acquire the calibre.

 

[Dave_45]

An rfd in Cambridge insisted on me posting my FAC to him to buy a rifle , he wouldn’t RFD it to a shop near me for some reason …

Anyway , I rang my FEO and it was made crystal clear to me not under any circumstances to post my FAC to any RFD ever.

I rang the Shop to inform them and miraculously he decided it was ok to RFD it so my gunshop…

 

[North Cornwall Deer]

I am in the process of buying a rifle currently from a site member in Scotland. My RFD is in Wales but I live in England. Both seller and I were told that I was to post my FAC to the seller (who is a complete stranger to me), so I have contacted Gwent Police Firearms Department to clarify.

They have said that sending my FAC to the seller is unnecessary, and also poses an unnecessary security risk as it would provide a complete stranger with my full name, address, DOB, photograph, signature, FAC number and a list of all the firearms that I have access to! It is also probably a fair assumption that someone with firearms may also have shotguns. This could then potentially be passed on to a third party either as information or as the original certificate. When I spoke to the FEO afterwards, he also suggested that such a move could be deemed in breach of my FAC conditions should anything go wrong! In addition, you are supposed to keep your FAC secure, and report its loss immediately, but sending it to a complete stranger at the other end of the country is fine!

His direction was for the seller to transfer the rifle to his RFD and as method of transfer write 'sold via RFD transfer'. The rifle is then sent to my RFD via their usual route, and I collect it and put 'Purchased via RFD transfer' on my license.

It appears that sanity has won!

I recently purchased a firearm from a member of this site and had do exactly as you say and post my certificate.
Due to no fault of mine or the seller my license has been lost by Royal Mail, or could be in the hands or anyone.
I have after a few weeks received a replacement, however this took weeks to arrive as I was beginning to fear it had suffered a similar fate.
After chasing it with Devon and Cornwall police, I asked if they sent licences out recorded delivery to which I was told “no we can hardly afford a 2nd class stamp“
To which I surmise they either have great faith in the postal service or do not consider a firearms license in the wrong hands a risk.

 

[Jh1986]

I recently purchased a firearm from a member of this site and had do exactly as you say and post my certificate.
Due to no fault of mine or the seller my license has been lost by Royal Mail, or could be in the hands or anyone.
I have after a few weeks received a replacement, however this took weeks to arrive as I was beginning to fear it had suffered a similar fate.
After chasing it with Devon and Cornwall police, I asked if they sent licences out recorded delivery to which I was told “no we can hardly afford a 2nd class stamp“
To which I surmise they either have great faith in the postal service or do not consider a firearms license in the wrong hands a risk.

All the more reason for a digital system

 

[ContinShots]

The correct legal procedure is for you to first post your FAC to the seller for him to complete the relevant section.
For many years this process has largely been ignored, and people have carried out private transactions by sending the gun to the buyer's rfd, and for that rfd to sign it on to the buyer's certificate. Which to us seems a sensible and safe way of doing things. But it has recently been clamped down on, and most rfds are now following the rules and are reluctant to release the firearm to the buyer unless the certificate has first been completed by the seller, in accordance with the law.

In Scotland, the enforcement of firearms law is devolved and most RFDs here don't require FAC or SG certificates to be posted because the Scottish Government hasn't issued the same dictat that the Home Office have. The law is an ass on this issue and not having FAC etc being posted around the place, leaving it up to RFDs to check, is much more sensible.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I am in the process of buying a rifle currently from a site member in Scotland. My RFD is in Wales but I live in England. Both seller and I were told that I was to post my FAC to the seller (who is a complete stranger to me), so I have contacted Gwent Police Firearms Department to clarify.

They have said that sending my FAC to the seller is unnecessary, and also poses an unnecessary security risk as it would provide a complete stranger with my full name, address, DOB, photograph, signature, FAC number and a list of all the firearms that I have access to! It is also probably a fair assumption that someone with firearms may also have shotguns. This could then potentially be passed on to a third party either as information or as the original certificate. When I spoke to the FEO afterwards, he also suggested that such a move could be deemed in breach of my FAC conditions should anything go wrong! In addition, you are supposed to keep your FAC secure, and report its loss immediately, but sending it to a complete stranger at the other end of the country is fine!

His direction was for the seller to transfer the rifle to his RFD and as method of transfer write 'sold via RFD transfer'. The rifle is then sent to my RFD via their usual route, and I collect it and put 'Purchased via RFD transfer' on my license.

It appears that sanity has won!

So this just shows clearly (not for the first time) that there is a woeful lack of training and legal knowledge within FLD's. That seriously needs addressing.
As VSS explained the Law requires the seller to fill out your FAC. So how exactly does that happen if you don't send it to them?
If they transfer to their RFD to yours to you FAC. Then yes you might make a legal transaction vis a vis Firearms Law, but you create a whole other issue with regards to VAT, liability, warranty etc with both RFD's involved.
So send certificate, seller fills out, sends back, sends (via RFD) the rifle, you go collect with your FAC to prove ownership. No liability for VAT or warranty from either RFD (other than on the service charge (if any)).

An rfd in Cambridge insisted on me posting my FAC to him to buy a rifle , he wouldn’t RFD it to a shop near me for some reason …

Anyway , I rang my FEO and it was made crystal clear to me not under any circumstances to post my FAC to any RFD ever.

I rang the Shop to inform them and miraculously he decided it was ok to RFD it so my gunshop…

I would suggest a RFD is probably preferable to "Joe Bloggs". For example find out who the seller wishes to send rifle from. Ring and ask if they would receive and supervise the filling out of your FAC and post back (for an agreed fee of course), in my mind preferable as you can do more checks prior to any transaction ie check it exists etc. The RFD sends rifle your RFD gives it to you when you take your FAC in. You comply with the law without sending your certificate to a random individual.

The advise however from you FEO is wrong.
Remember there are no formal qualifications for the role (that I am aware of) but finally some forces are providing some training (BASC possibly other orgs too have provided).
Which would you rather trust? The opinion of the unqualified FEO, or the Firearms Act as defined by HOG in writing? I know which I will follow.
Home Office Guidelines (Firearms)
15.28 The RFD network can also assist in the delivery of the firearm where a certificate

holder wishes to sell to another certificate holder. The procedure is similar but in the

first instance the onus is on the seller to see and check the purchaser’s certificate,

fill in the necessary details before returning it and to notify his chief officer of police

within 7 days of the sale. Having received payment, the seller takes the gun to an

RFD who has agreed to arrange the transfer to a second dealer nominated by the

purchaser to act on their behalf in effecting a face-to face transfer. The entry in the

register only needs to reflect the temporary holding of the firearm: “FOR

TRANSFER: destination Mr ..xxx.. and forwarded to RFD xxx for collection”. The

RFD arranging the transfer should obtain a copy of the second dealer’s certificate of

registration. On receipt of the firearm/shotgun, that dealer will contact the purchaser

who will arrange to collect the gun in person, producing his completed certificate

and proof of identity as above. The purchaser must notify the transfer to his chief

officer of police within 7 days. The second dealer will record the transfer in both the

“In” and “Out” sections of his Register. In these circumstances neither RFD is

involved in filling in the certificate or notifying the police.

 

[ContinShots]

So this just shows clearly (not for the first time) that there is a woeful lack of training and legal knowledge within FLD's. That seriously needs addressing.
As VSS explained the Law requires the seller to fill out your FAC. So how exactly does that happen if you don't send it to them?
If they transfer to their RFD to yours to you FAC. Then yes you might make a legal transaction vis a vis Firearms Law, but you create a whole other issue with regards to VAT, liability, warranty etc with both RFD's involved.
So send certificate, seller fills out, sends back, sends (via RFD) the rifle, you go collect with your FAC to prove ownership. No liability for VAT or warranty from either RFD (other than on the service charge (if any)).

I would suggest a RFD is probably preferable to "Joe Bloggs". For example find out who the seller wishes to send rifle from. Ring and ask if they would receive and supervise the filling out of your FAC and post back (for an agreed fee of course), in my mind preferable as you can do more checks prior to any transaction ie check it exists etc. The RFD sends rifle your RFD gives it to you when you take your FAC in. You comply with the law without sending your certificate to a random individual.

The advise however from you FEO is wrong.
Remember there are no formal qualifications for the role (that I am aware of) but finally some forces are providing some training (BASC possibly other orgs too have provided).
Which would you rather trust? The opinion of the unqualified FEO, or the Firearms Act as defined by HOG in writing? I know which I will follow.
Home Office Guidelines (Firearms)
15.28 The RFD network can also assist in the delivery of the firearm where a certificate

holder wishes to sell to another certificate holder. The procedure is similar but in the

first instance the onus is on the seller to see and check the purchaser’s certificate,

fill in the necessary details before returning it and to notify his chief officer of police

within 7 days of the sale. Having received payment, the seller takes the gun to an

RFD who has agreed to arrange the transfer to a second dealer nominated by the

purchaser to act on their behalf in effecting a face-to face transfer. The entry in the

register only needs to reflect the temporary holding of the firearm: “FOR

TRANSFER: destination Mr ..xxx.. and forwarded to RFD xxx for collection”. The

RFD arranging the transfer should obtain a copy of the second dealer’s certificate of

registration. On receipt of the firearm/shotgun, that dealer will contact the purchaser

who will arrange to collect the gun in person, producing his completed certificate

and proof of identity as above. The purchaser must notify the transfer to his chief

officer of police within 7 days. The second dealer will record the transfer in both the

“In” and “Out” sections of his Register. In these circumstances neither RFD is

involved in filling in the certificate or notifying the police.

I don't see how it creates any VAT, warranty or other issues at all. The law is quite clear, ownership is quite separate from possession under the Firearms Acts, hence why you can have your certificate revoked or inherit firearms without a certificate, but still be the lawful owner of them. The RFDs merely enter a transfer type that reflects the role they play in the transaction. This is being made much more complicated than it needs to be. Sending certificates in the post to random people who've offered to sell you a firearm is ridiculous in 2025, and while your alternative process does reduce risk, it still requires certificates to be posted via Royal Mail, leaving them exposed to being lost or stolen and then used in crime. RFDs should be the ones to complete certificates for all distance sales, it's the only process that makes sense in this day and age, and firearms law needs to catch up and join us in the 21st century. I bought a rifle last year using the process that operates in Scotland (no certs posted anywhere), had an issue and the warranty work occurred without any issue whatsoever.

 

[VSS]

I don't see how it creates any VAT, warranty or other issues at all. The law is quite clear, ownership is quite separate from possession under the Firearms Acts, hence why you can have your certificate revoked or inherit firearms without a certificate, but still be the lawful owner of them. The RFDs merely enter a transfer type that reflects the role they play in the transaction. This is being made much more complicated than it needs to be. Sending certificates in the post to random people who've offered to sell you a firearm is ridiculous in 2025, and while your alternative process does reduce risk, it still requires certificates to be posted via Royal Mail, leaving them exposed to being lost or stolen and then used in crime. RFDs should be the ones to complete certificates for all distance sales, it's the only process that makes sense in this day and age, and firearms law needs to catch up and join us in the 21st century. I bought a rifle last year using the process that operates in Scotland (no certs posted anywhere), had an issue and the warranty work occurred without any issue whatsoever.

Yes, it would create a major warranty issue if the final purchaser found anything be wrong with the firearm.
The original seller would simply say: "Nothing to do with me, mate. I transferred ownership to my RFD. Here's the paperwork to prove it. It was no longer my rifle by the time you aquired it".

 

[Button]

In Scotland, the enforcement of firearms law is devolved and most RFDs here don't require FAC or SG certificates to be posted because the Scottish Government hasn't issued the same dictat that the Home Office have. The law is an ass on this issue and not having FAC etc being posted around the place, leaving it up to RFDs to check, is much more sensible.

That is totally wrong, firearms law is not devolved! Just as well, look at the Air Weapon Certificate

Firearms holders face 'substantial' cost rises

Ruling will effect gamekeepers and country sports

www.scottishgamekeepers.co.uk

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I don't see how it creates any VAT, warranty or other issues at all. The law is quite clear, ownership is quite separate from possession under the Firearms Acts, hence why you can have your certificate revoked or inherit firearms without a certificate, but still be the lawful owner of them. The RFDs merely enter a transfer type that reflects the role they play in the transaction. This is being made much more complicated than it needs to be. Sending certificates in the post to random people who've offered to sell you a firearm is ridiculous in 2025, and while your alternative process does reduce risk, it still requires certificates to be posted via Royal Mail, leaving them exposed to being lost or stolen and then used in crime. RFDs should be the ones to complete certificates for all distance sales, it's the only process that makes sense in this day and age, and firearms law needs to catch up and join us in the 21st century. I bought a rifle last year using the process that operates in Scotland (no certs posted anywhere), had an issue and the warranty work occurred without any issue whatsoever.

It’s fairly simple.
RFD signs rifle onto their books. To comply with the law they must become the owner of the firearm (the seller must fill out the certificate). Which is why the law requires that you post your FAC back and forth.
Once the RFD becomes the owner they are responsible for the condition of the firearm. Under consumer protection laws, so liability for condition etc falls to them. But hang on, you have to post it to another RFD. Who to comply with the law has to be the owner (certainly the “seller”) otherwise they can’t legally fill in your certificate.
VAT implications come from them legally owning the firearm and an assumed profit being made on its value. Not sure of exactly how the scheme works, but I was told this by a RFD with thirty ish years in the Trade. I would take his (and his accountants) word for it.
As for your Royal Mail argument. Well how do you send and receive your FAC/SGC from your FLD? I will put money on it that even if you send it special delivery (the service with full tracking) the FLD doesn’t. I am sure if you sent a freedom of information request you could find out how many go missing in the post. Along with Passports and various other documents (not always nefarious reasons) that do not reach their intended recipients. So other than it being someone who you don’t know, what is the difference. You can always get a photo of their FAC to confirm that they are at the address on the certificate. Regardless unless changed the Law is the Law and we must obey it (or risk losing our FAC).

I agree that the whole Firearm licensing system needs to change. I can notify DVLA of a vehicle sale and the new keeper gets the V5 within days (used to be at least six weeks). I can find car parts from its registration number.
I don’t see why we cannot have a robust system to record details and entitlement or ownership. The senecio could then be, seller does electronic transfer. System only allows if purchaser has authority. Seller then has seven days (for example) to arrange transfer via RFD. Receiving RFD checks system against your FAC and hands over your new firearm.
It would be far easier and would stop forged documents being used to purchase firearms.
There could be fraudulent use of the system (someone seems to find a way) but it works already for DVLA. Why not firearms licensing.

 

[AlexD]

So this just shows clearly (not for the first time) that there is a woeful lack of training and legal knowledge within FLD's. That seriously needs addressing.
As VSS explained the Law requires the seller to fill out your FAC. So how exactly does that happen if you don't send it to them?
If they transfer to their RFD to yours to you FAC. Then yes you might make a legal transaction vis a vis Firearms Law, but you create a whole other issue with regards to VAT, liability, warranty etc with both RFD's involved.
So send certificate, seller fills out, sends back, sends (via RFD) the rifle, you go collect with your FAC to prove ownership. No liability for VAT or warranty from either RFD (other than on the service charge (if any)).

I would suggest a RFD is probably preferable to "Joe Bloggs". For example find out who the seller wishes to send rifle from. Ring and ask if they would receive and supervise the filling out of your FAC and post back (for an agreed fee of course), in my mind preferable as you can do more checks prior to any transaction ie check it exists etc. The RFD sends rifle your RFD gives it to you when you take your FAC in. You comply with the law without sending your certificate to a random individual.

The advise however from you FEO is wrong.
Remember there are no formal qualifications for the role (that I am aware of) but finally some forces are providing some training (BASC possibly other orgs too have provided).
Which would you rather trust? The opinion of the unqualified FEO, or the Firearms Act as defined by HOG in writing? I know which I will follow.
Home Office Guidelines (Firearms)
15.28 The RFD network can also assist in the delivery of the firearm where a certificate

holder wishes to sell to another certificate holder. The procedure is similar but in the

first instance the onus is on the seller to see and check the purchaser’s certificate,

fill in the necessary details before returning it and to notify his chief officer of police

within 7 days of the sale. Having received payment, the seller takes the gun to an

RFD who has agreed to arrange the transfer to a second dealer nominated by the

purchaser to act on their behalf in effecting a face-to face transfer. The entry in the

register only needs to reflect the temporary holding of the firearm: “FOR

TRANSFER: destination Mr ..xxx.. and forwarded to RFD xxx for collection”. The

RFD arranging the transfer should obtain a copy of the second dealer’s certificate of

registration. On receipt of the firearm/shotgun, that dealer will contact the purchaser

who will arrange to collect the gun in person, producing his completed certificate

and proof of identity as above. The purchaser must notify the transfer to his chief

officer of police within 7 days. The second dealer will record the transfer in both the

“In” and “Out” sections of his Register. In these circumstances neither RFD is

involved in filling in the certificate or notifying the police.

I thought all transfers had to be face to face, so if you buy or sell a firearm or ammo there is no sending FACs anywhere: either you meet with the seller or you meet with an RFD who can arrange collection from anyone.
The advice is that if the buyer is not known to you, then get a copy of the FAC in advance and check it is genuine.
Further advice was don't agree to sales to strangers on days when their FEO's office is shut.
We all know how much easier life would be if they had an online portal to check a FAC, like they have for visas or driving licences, but that would take someone a few days to program and the powers that be prefer to waste many man-years in a confusing variety of paper systems.