Smellydog
Well-Known Member
My replies context was in response to someone else's comments.
Lead update.
- Thread starter gixer1
- Start date
If we’ve banned lead ammunition, what are we going to do to keep birds from eating grit near roads - where the road is still marked with lead paint - legitimately under EU law, which for some reason exempted this use of lead paint, and the grit littered with pieces of old wheel weights, as well as all manner of other heavy metals?
So here’s a question - has anyone found a steel shot AND fibre wad shotgun cartridge that doesn’t cost £600 a thousand?
I’ve been looking around (purely on the basis that should this become law that’ll be the end of the lead supplies) and I can’t seem to find anything much.
Most clubs want fibre wads (or maybe it’s just the ones I shoot with
) and I can’t see how they’re going to keep going if the only option is plastic wads. We need a sensibly priced steel shot and fibre (or eco) wadded cartridge - anyone know who makes such a thing?
I’ve been looking around (purely on the basis that should this become law that’ll be the end of the lead supplies) and I can’t seem to find anything much.
Most clubs want fibre wads (or maybe it’s just the ones I shoot with
) and I can’t see how they’re going to keep going if the only option is plastic wads. We need a sensibly priced steel shot and fibre (or eco) wadded cartridge - anyone know who makes such a thing?Eley clay loads with the water soluble wad are less than £450/1000 on just cartridges. Joker game loads with a card wad are under £400/1000, so presumably if ckay shooters switched, theyd offer a cheap clay loads.So here’s a question - has anyone found a steel shot AND fibre wad shotgun cartridge that doesn’t cost £600 a thousand?
I’ve been looking around (purely on the basis that should this become law that’ll be the end of the lead supplies) and I can’t seem to find anything much.
Most clubs want fibre wads (or maybe it’s just the ones I shoot with
Yeah I saw those - that’s quite a step up in price from the Eley stuff I’m using now (£280 a thousand, which is still not cheap)
I guess the hope will be that the price will come down if (when FFS…) we all switch as you say.
Look on youtube for Landofficer - has some good footage of pigeon shooting with 20 bore steel
Alex88
Well-Known Member
What interests me is how steel 12 bore cartridges used to be cheaper than lead, as you might expect given the far lower price per tonne of the source metal. Gamebore super steel, 8 to 10 years ago were really cheap, as cheap or cheaper than budget clay cartridges. As soon as the lead ban was mentioned, these prices rocketed. The manufacturers (and their defendent fans) quote how the propellants are more expensive for the higher velocities, which I don't dispute, but I am sure the situation has been used to hike prices.
I tried them 20 years ago pigeon shooting. Terrible, plenty feathers few pigeon. Changed to lead averaged three pigeon(dead) per five shots over the afternoon.
Even without transport needs less process. Lead shot needs about 330 degrees C. of heat and a large tank of water to drop it in be that by long drop (from a shot tower) or short drop as seen in these You Tube videos. Steel, or more correctly iron, shot to become such needs much more energy and 1,600 degrees C. Searching "How is steel shot made" on the internet shows that it is not at all an energy cheap process and because of that is not at all environmentally friendly. And that's even before it starts its journey to Europe from China.
Gone again though with the blanket ban excuse of not shooting over wetlands....
Hornet
Well-Known Member
I use steel in my 20bore, predominantly to shoot squirrels/pigeons for my hawk to eat, standard steel 24gram 5s kill very well indeed, in my opinion better than 12 gauge standard steel, so I imagine high performance steel in a 20 would be very effective.
Things have moved on a great deal in 20 years Ratel
For you maybe, I must be jinxed, can't get copper to shoot in .243 either, terrible groups.
Have a go with the shotgun again Ratel - you may be pleasantry surprised - TBH i was
Sold 20, now only use 12, English sidelock 2.5" chambers. Will use lead until further restrictions.
Where did you get those at that price please?
I keep posting this until I am blue in the face. But why has the New Zealand system not been suggested for the UK? I suggest because, the truth is the February 2020 document circulated by BASC was to protect its investment in the then British Game Alliance and an attempt to defend the then under attack by Wild Justice justify commercial "big bag" shooting as harvesting game meat for the marketplace.
The UK is now OUT of the EU and, again, that leave was promoted as enabling us to make our own laws. But of course commercial "big bag" shot game is often sold in the EU. So I'll ask again "cui bono"? Who benefits? And second is that the why has the New Zealand system not been suggested for the UK? Is it because it would not suit this defence of harvesting game meat of the "big bag" commercial shoots?
So, again, as said before everybody who along with the CPSA who also did not sign or who did not agree with that February 2020 round-robin gets thrown under the bus and any attempt to now resist the HSE proposals is rebuked by reference to the "voice of shooting" and others having themselves suggested an "end to lead shot". Not now just for live quarry shooting but for clay pigeon shooting as well.
So any here who are BASC members might, please, ask directly why is the New Zealand model not being proposed here? And maybe share that answer?
www.fishandgame.org.nz
The UK is now OUT of the EU and, again, that leave was promoted as enabling us to make our own laws. But of course commercial "big bag" shot game is often sold in the EU. So I'll ask again "cui bono"? Who benefits? And second is that the why has the New Zealand system not been suggested for the UK? Is it because it would not suit this defence of harvesting game meat of the "big bag" commercial shoots?
So, again, as said before everybody who along with the CPSA who also did not sign or who did not agree with that February 2020 round-robin gets thrown under the bus and any attempt to now resist the HSE proposals is rebuked by reference to the "voice of shooting" and others having themselves suggested an "end to lead shot". Not now just for live quarry shooting but for clay pigeon shooting as well.
So any here who are BASC members might, please, ask directly why is the New Zealand model not being proposed here? And maybe share that answer?
Non-toxic shot regulations
Hunters are required to use non-toxic shot when hunting waterfowl within 200 metres of water. 2021 saw a complete ban on the use of lead shot for all but 410 gauge, and that exemption ended at the end of the 2023 game bird hunting season. This ban will be strictly enforced on public, private...
www.fishandgame.org.nz
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Having had a quick read, that would probably work but makes too much sense for your government to adopt itI keep posting this until I am blue in the face. But why has the New Zealand system not been suggested for the UK? I suggest because, the truth is the February 2020 document circulated by BASC was to protect its investment in the then British Game Alliance and an attempt to defend the then under attack by Wild Justice justify commercial "big bag" shooting as harvesting game meat for the marketplace.
The UK is now OUT of the EU and, again, that leave was promoted as enabling us to make our own laws. But of course commercial "big bag" shot game is often sold in the EU. So I'll ask again "cui bono"? Who benefits? And second is that the why has the New Zealand system not been suggested for the UK? Is it because it would not suit this defence of harvesting game meat of the "big bag" commercial shoots?
So, again, as said before everybody who along with the CPSA who also did not sign or who did not agree with that February 2020 round-robin gets thrown under the bus and any attempt to now resist the HSE proposals is rebuked by reference to the "voice of shooting" and others having themselves suggested an "end to lead shot". Not now just for live quarry shooting but for clay pigeon shooting as well.
So any here who are BASC members might, please, ask directly why is the New Zealand model not being proposed here? And maybe share that answer?
Non-toxic shot regulations
Hunters are required to use non-toxic shot when hunting waterfowl within 200 metres of water. 2021 saw a complete ban on the use of lead shot for all but 410 gauge, and that exemption ended at the end of the 2023 game bird hunting season. This ban will be strictly enforced on public, private...
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