Is the sun setting on expensive glass?

[Roonster]

S@B are pricing themselves out of the market. Their top end PM scopes have all but doubled in price in the last 5 years and current prices are silly.
I suspect many users dont actually use/need them for what they shoot both target or quarry.
I still consider Delta scopes to be nigh on the best value scopes on the market.
Most of my shooting is at night so NV only.
D

Yeah. Schmidt & Bender, in particular, seem to be stone deaf when it comes to reading the mood in the room. As demand for their products continues to drop they insist on hiking their prices once again.

For years Sony Trinitron screens were considered the very best screens available on the market and they had a couple of features that no else had. During these years Trinitron screens enjoyed a significant price premium, which Sony and others claimed was down to the additional manufacturing costs associated with these unique displays.

Then superior LCD screens came along, and as the demand for Trinitron screens imploded, it seemed like every single vendor on the market was able to offer these screens for buttons. Turns out, in hindsight, that it had always cost buttons to make Trinitron displays, but it was the profit that was making them expensive.

I personally think that high-end glass is entering it twilight years, and we will be'surprised' by just how cheaply former high-end manufactures can produce their wares as they attempt to wring the last few drops out of the towel.

 

[User00057]

Having the same problem with my alpex. In the last 6 nonth have lost zero twice both times has moved 6 inch high at 100 yards. Numbers haven't changed and everything tight. Have just updated software on scope as been told this could be the problem . Time will tell but starting to loose faith in it

I feel your pain mate. But feel after this you just won’t trust it like myself.

 

[timbrayford]

In your opinion, are the days of spending huge amounts on glass, over?

I've spoken to a few shop owners that say they can't keep products like the Alpex in stock, whilst their Swarovski display cabinet is just gathering dust.

Seems like there is a brisk trade in high-end Schmidt & Benders and Swarovskis being sold off in the Classifieds section.

Are stalkers moving en masse to the digital scopes?

Yes

 

[User00057]

As I’ve commented in previous posts, digital just leads to illegal, not with all, but even with some law abiding folk

I’m sure there’s many that will say “they’ll only go to the last minute”, cos of course they are law abiding, but they are the same guys that will go home and happily drive at 50 in a 40 zone or similar, because there’s nobody around and the roads are clear, it’ll do no harm

When I was out foxing one evening at last light I was really surprised how long after dark the thing worked in day time mode. I imagine it must be difficult for some to resist.

 

[enfieldspares]

Is the sun setting on expensive glass? Is the sun setting on expensive laptop computers? Yes...to both...but only in either case because the cost of making high quality optics has like the cost of high speed and high memory laptop computers has come down.

My first PC in 1995 was a Compaq 166 desktop with 16Mb of RAM a 14" monitor like the old cathode ray box type televisions/ My most recent PC is an HP with huge amounts of processor power and enormous RAM. The Compaq cost £699, The HP cost £450.

So it is with optics.

 

[old keeper]

It's the same in most lifetimes, you use or make do with what you have at the time. Those of us who lived and shot in the immediate post-war period had rudimentary equipment at best, nothing like the vast array of equipment available today and yet I'm pretty sure most of us did pretty well with it.
I do not doubt that some modern gear has been a major step forward for some shooters, but it comes at a (sometimes) considerable cost. When I started out on my foxing career I could make a considerable amount of money from my efforts, the same with pre-myxi rabbits, so not only did it cover the cost of my primeval equipment, but I made a decent living out of it. Today, foxes have no value and you struggle to get much out of rabbits. The value of venison is not what it was, yet folk spend really eye-watering sums on equipment to shoot quarry that in many cases is worthless.
If the old ways worked "back in the day" they may need more input from the modern operator but they still work.
As I've said before, the item that has changed shooting for good has been the advent of the thermal spotter, yet here again more and more, and in most cases, more expensive thermal gear constantly appears yet in all honesty I can't see me ever getting anything to update what I have now as if it does the job I want it to tonight, surely it will do the same job next year, if I'm still around!.

 

[Roonster]

First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win.

For years Schmidt & Bender et. al. have been ignoring companies like Vortex, then came the mockery. Now S&B are having to compete with (and lose to) Vortex on military contracts. One day we might even see S&B being sold to Vortex, in the same way that Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors and Habitat got sold to IKEA.

 

[Roonster]

It's the same in most lifetimes, you use or make do with what you have at the time. Those of us who lived and shot in the immediate post-war period had rudimentary equipment at best, nothing like the vast array of equipment available today and yet I'm pretty sure most of us did pretty well with it.
I do not doubt that some modern gear has been a major step forward for some shooters, but it comes at a (sometimes) considerable cost. When I started out on my foxing career I could make a considerable amount of money from my efforts, the same with pre-myxi rabbits, so not only did it cover the cost of my primeval equipment, but I made a decent living out of it. Today, foxes have no value and you struggle to get much out of rabbits. The value of venison is not what it was, yet folk spend really eye-watering sums on equipment to shoot quarry that in many cases is worthless.
If the old ways worked "back in the day" they may need more input from the modern operator but they still work.
As I've said before, the item that has changed shooting for good has been the advent of the thermal spotter, yet here again more and more, and in most cases, more expensive thermal gear constantly appears yet in all honesty I can't see me ever getting anything to update what I have now as if it does the job I want it to tonight, surely it will do the same job next year, if I'm still around!.

Why was it possible to make a decent living foxing back then, but it's not possible now? What changed?

 

[Foxyboy43]

I can remember my joy at buying my first sealed for life 12v motorbike battery. (no more Barber coats, or skin, eaten away by battery acid). The smug feeling when I'd fashioned a battery shoulder harness out of old seat belts, with the lap buckle as a fastener. These together with my car spot light, later to be a 1,000,000 candle power lamp, transformed my lamping with dogs and shotgun.
I can't imagine my grandkids walking up hill and down, carrying several lbs of kit for a few Rabbits and the odd fox.
Ahhh, the good old days.

Indeed so - why is it nostalgia isn’t what it used to be?
I so very well remember coming off a night’s lamping doing a very good impression of the Hunchback of Notre Dame, all thanks to the half a ton of car battery hung from a jury-rigged truss of rope and WW1 and 2 army surplus straps. My old nemesis tutor used to tell me it was far, far worse when he was young but I never figured out how that could possibly be. Still, it was certainly character-building….

 

[Tim.243]

Why was it possible to make a decent living foxing back then, but it's not possible now? What changed?

Because the fur trade was a good income, the US has a good fur trade for those who use it.

 

[Pete6.5]

Why was it possible to make a decent living foxing back then, but it's not possible now? What changed?

The fur trade

 

[Foxyboy43]

Why was it possible to make a decent living foxing back then, but it's not possible now? What changed?

A. There was a bounty.
B. People wore fur cos it was stylish and warm.
As an aside and from my ever faulty memory in NI a bounty was paid on the fox brush whilst across the border it was paid on the tongue so if you lived in a border county….

PS
Legend has it that any stray dogs in the South were fair game for their tongues…

 

[mealiejimmy]

I think glass is just about as good as it is ever going to get.
There are no big improvements in optical quality that Swaro, Zeiss, S&B and Leica can make (without their already high prices going into the stratosphere)
Low and middle tier scopes are getting better and approaching the quality of top end glass - if you want a decent glass scope without paying top tier money, the middle tier is where the bargains are (Arken, Delta Optical etc)
To keep their selling prices high Swaro have gone further and further down the digital road with the likes of the DS - which now has an RRP of over £4k, so it's not surprising they are lying around on gun shop shelves unsold
In the limit, digital will never be as good as glass, but surely the question needs to be asked, for hunting purposes, how good do you need the image to be to allow you to see the target clearly enough to take a safe and humane shot
I would argue that there already digital scopes which have reached that level of image quality and are absolutely fit for the purpose of hunting.
At the end of the day, everyone will make their own choice about whether to use glass or digital - and that is as it should be
However, looking to the future, I don't see any significant improvement in glass scopes any time soon while digital still has significant room for improvement - and has a big price advantage over top tier glass

Cheers

Bruce

 

[old keeper]

Why was it possible to make a decent living foxing back then, but it's not possible now? What changed?

At the start of the sixties, a decent salary was £1000-£1500 per year (£20-£30 a week). A good winter fox skin was making from £15-£20. We were out most nights, very often all night and averaged about 10 foxes a week plus those we snared. The "season" ran from late October to the end of March when foxes started moulting. Eventually, thanks to the efforts of the antis the sale of wild fur was banned, also fashions changed. one of the reasons the antis stepped in was to protect foxes, that worked well, didn't it?

Good days and hard work, but we learned a lot about our quarry. very different from today, as all foxes were shot with the lamp and a twelve bore at around 30 yards or less!

 

[wytonpjs]

You won't make that speed with your sled and team of husky's Peter

No need Tim - they all fitted in the car! Work smarter NOT harder

 

[Roonster]

Some interesting and illuminating opinions on here guys.

Thank you for that.

This is why these forums are so valuable!

 

[Foxyboy43]

Well here’s the thing - as the older echelons of glass-using stalkers retire or go to the great hill in the sky what do you think their young entry-level successors are going to do?
Hmmm, let me think… they can pay silly money for grandad’s “traditional” glass scope which will still give a super daytime picture and extra twilight minutes over mid-priced scopes though the gap is definitely narrowing or for 25% of the price buy a modern digital scope which will give damn close to the same picture quality, incredible zoom capacity, a crystal-clear view well beyond twilight and pitch black capability through IR and thermal oh and tell me how far the quarry is and even work out my zero at any distance for me? Now just let me think….
Consider as an example the revolution in cameras and phones since digital came along; anyone bought a camera recently?
IMHO the days of glass really are numbered, just a matter of time…

 

[wytonpjs]

Well here’s the thing - as the older echelons of glass-using stalkers retire or go to the great hill in the sky what do you think their young entry-level successors are going to do?
Hmmm, let me think… they can pay silly money for grandad’s “traditional” glass scope which will still give a super daytime picture and extra twilight minutes over mid-priced scopes though the gap is definitely narrowing or for 25% of the price buy a modern digital scope which will give damn close to the same picture quality, incredible zoom capacity, a crystal-clear view well beyond twilight and pitch black capability through IR and thermal oh and tell me how far the quarry is and even work out my zero at any distance for me? Now just let me think….
Consider as an example the revolution in cameras and phones since digital came along; anyone bought a camera recently?
IMHO the days of glass really are numbered, just a matter of time…

You missed another USP for youngsters - that every shot/outing can readily be shared on social media and with their mates down in the club. Sadly, IMHO this is to the detriment of stalking but as you say, that's progress and technically, I'm a pensioner

 

[HonestJohn]

It’s a great time for the wise to purchase good glass scopes at big discounts - also safe from EMP strikes and solar flares

 

[Tazz]

You missed another USP for youngsters - that every shot/outing can readily be shared on social media and with their mates down in the club. Sadly, IMHO this is to the detriment of stalking but as you say, that's progress and technically, I'm a pensioner

Plus the “Kids” now won’t buy anything unless it links to an App