Is the sun setting on expensive glass?
- Thread starter Roonster
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Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
But you will be in hock to Chinese battery makers forever. Old glass of course needs not to be charged up. Only the button cell for the reticle illumination if wanted.
Pellet Pinger
Well-Known Member
Daytime definitely but 10 mins before last knockings? you’re having a laugh!
Unless you have very good young eyes I think it's purely a waste of money to have very top end glass . S@B are ment to be rugged for military operations so like IOR massively over engineered. Tracking consistent is also essential as engaging targets at variable ranges.
In essence not what 99% of no military users need or use!
D
In essence not what 99% of no military users need or use!
D
Still using glass as anything digital/thermal is to me unnecessary expenditure at my age. If I can't shoot it with a Leupold or S&B then I ain't going to shoot it. At my age I'd probably lose fingers during the gralloch in the dark. I'd like to see some of today's stalkers have a go at the old ways. A classic was the farmer I knew who shot Fallow with his .22 LR. His rear sight was a ratchet but he lost part of it so used a matchstick to adjust height, the front sight was a filed down lead roofing nail tapped into the dovetail slot. Now he could hit an old penny piece offhand at 50yds, I could never match.him but I did kill a few Fallow with it.
I never had a scope until I got my Grandfather's 7x 57 and put a Nikko sterling on it. I used that, my Hornet before it and my .22 LR for some time using iron sights out to 200 yds with the centrefires and a lot of deer taken that way. It all suits one person or another but that's what's so interesting in stalking.
I never had a scope until I got my Grandfather's 7x 57 and put a Nikko sterling on it. I used that, my Hornet before it and my .22 LR for some time using iron sights out to 200 yds with the centrefires and a lot of deer taken that way. It all suits one person or another but that's what's so interesting in stalking.
I have 4 high end scopes and they are great.
I have a few much cheaper scopes on other rifles. The cheaper ones certainly do the job as long as the conditions are reasonably.
Come a bit of mist, a dark cloudy day and ****ing rain the high end scopes stand up to the plate and are much better.
I have 2 S & B pm 2 ( 10 x 42) scopes bought around 1992 ish.
When compared with a march high master( at the same power ) , there is not that much difference. So the older classics scope take some beating!
I have a few much cheaper scopes on other rifles. The cheaper ones certainly do the job as long as the conditions are reasonably.
Come a bit of mist, a dark cloudy day and ****ing rain the high end scopes stand up to the plate and are much better.
I have 2 S & B pm 2 ( 10 x 42) scopes bought around 1992 ish.
When compared with a march high master( at the same power ) , there is not that much difference. So the older classics scope take some beating!
Scanning distant treelines, hedges, etc in a quick and efficient way using a good thermal spotter is going to find quarry in all weather conditions and at ranges way past practical shooting distances and at all times of the day and night, in conditions that even the best glass would be struggle. If the task is to cull, digital will make the best use of your time, and is the way to go.
If stalking in a traditional manner, for pleasure is your thing, and the cost of said glass is not a barrier, then glass may be your choice.
Even entry level thermal spotters will make a huge difference to finding quarry.
Marry that with a Hik, Arken or Pulsar NV. Scope and you have a very efficient Stalking/Culling machine.
All from a starting price of £1200.
A mix of the above is where most will find themselves.
If stalking in a traditional manner, for pleasure is your thing, and the cost of said glass is not a barrier, then glass may be your choice.
Even entry level thermal spotters will make a huge difference to finding quarry.
Marry that with a Hik, Arken or Pulsar NV. Scope and you have a very efficient Stalking/Culling machine.
All from a starting price of £1200.
A mix of the above is where most will find themselves.
That is a true statement, but if you looked at a potential target through both at the same time would the digital image be good enough for you to take a safe and humane shot ?
I've done that test in good light conditions with a Swaro Z6i alongside a DNT Zulus and obviously the Swaro image was better.
But any deer that came within range could be shot equally well with either scope
And of course, when the light level dropped to a point where the Swaro image became unusable, the Zulus was still giving me a very shootable image
Just sayin
Cheers
Bruce
@mealiejimmy what's the best front clip-on in your opinion presently to combine the best of both "worlds" and is this likely to change significantly in the near future please?That is a true statement, but if you looked at a potential target through both at the same time would the digital image be good enough for you to take a safe and humane shot ?
I've done that test in good light conditions with a Swaro Z6i alongside a DNT Zulus and obviously the Swaro image was better.
But any deer that came within range could be shot equally well with either scope
And of course, when the light level dropped to a point where the Swaro image became unusable, the Zulus was still giving me a very shootable image
Just sayin
Cheers
Bruce
I've had thermal front add-ons from both Pulsar and HIK and couldn't get on with either so gave them up as a bad job
However, some people do like them - but usually in countries where it's the only form of legal night vision
I'm sure there are other people on here who have had more success than me so maybe wait for them to come and give their opinion and experiences
For me, glass is purely for the range now (primarily load development)
All my hunting is done with digital
Cheers
Bruce
However, some people do like them - but usually in countries where it's the only form of legal night vision
I'm sure there are other people on here who have had more success than me so maybe wait for them to come and give their opinion and experiences
For me, glass is purely for the range now (primarily load development)
All my hunting is done with digital
Cheers
Bruce
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I helped a friend set up a new rifle with a mid range few hundred pound rifle scope. Optical quality certainly good. Feel of dials turrets - well certainly not like swaro or S&B.
I think good glass absolutely has a long future. I can’t see digital optics being much use on the range, and whilst I have tried them I don’t think they are anything like a match to good glass for normal deer stalking use.
Yes a digital allows you to maximise the one hour after sunset. But shooting deer in the dark just means all the finding, gralloching, extraction is that much more difficult.
And I can’t see how the electronics will last.
I think good glass absolutely has a long future. I can’t see digital optics being much use on the range, and whilst I have tried them I don’t think they are anything like a match to good glass for normal deer stalking use.
Yes a digital allows you to maximise the one hour after sunset. But shooting deer in the dark just means all the finding, gralloching, extraction is that much more difficult.
And I can’t see how the electronics will last.
Die hard glass fan. Have had a couple of NV scopes and sold them! My brother is here for the weekend was playing about with rifles today part way through playing about with my rifles on glass he said the clarity is much better on glass than with his hik NV 
.
My other worry is people would extend shootable hours alot longer.........
. My other worry is people would extend shootable hours alot longer.........
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
With you H except the “range” bit - with the Zulus and other RF scopes equipped with a BC there's no need to remember “dope” or heaven forbid, gulp, dial in different ranges - you just ping once with the RF button and a second press for your new zero - so far a 100 yds zero and that simple double press has given me 3x300 yards foxes and endless numbers of 240 and 400 yards gongs - so that wins for me in terms of speed and handiness. That said on ranges I imagine that such devices are/will be banned for competition use….
Incidentally two professional stalkers I know well are already considering switching to digital as guests invariably get distance and holdover wrong plus they (the stalkers) can see the scope picture live via bluetooth as they lie beside the guest - who would have thought….
You had to get them back to the car lolNo need Tim - they all fitted in the car! Work smarter NOT harder
The likes of an alpex 4k blows the brakes off a Z6i for last light and first light capability.
It’s definitely the budget choice and it does outperform them in some respects ,them being German/austrian glass at £2500 ish
However, it’s definitely not as lasting , “the same” as the glass scopes. Zero holding issues ….
I can see why high end scopes have dropped off in sales.
It’s definitely the budget choice and it does outperform them in some respects ,them being German/austrian glass at £2500 ish
However, it’s definitely not as lasting , “the same” as the glass scopes. Zero holding issues ….
I can see why high end scopes have dropped off in sales.
I drove the car to all four and used the capstan winch on one to get it out of a valley. Pulling the trigger is the easy bit - thinking about the recovery BEFORE I pull the trigger is the bit I have now learnt
Yes, glass is coming under pressure and at the risk of upsetting some, the old farts on here who say otherwise are the same who said, tikka t3 are 5h1t rifles, no I will never buy thermal, it is not sporting, etc etc etc.
look at the best selling rifle and (almost) everybody has a thermal. As the old fogies die out and the yoof come in, they will generally go straight to the electronics. This is already happening.
Yes there are some things that are better about glass, but there are some things that are better about electronics.
Namely, cost, cost, and cost.
Z8i, other brands are available, £2800.
Hik Alpex £850.
Now, on what world are you, as a new stalker, with limited budget, going to go out and buy glass? Let us assume that an electronics scope will last 5 years. That is 15 years of stalking with change left over.
I have posted this before, but, just go to the show, ( the ones that everybody complains are a waste of money) and look at which stands are full of people and which are empty. I did go to the Shooting Show today, easy to see, and leaves no doubt in my mind, glass is under pressure. It will be around for a while, but, it is simply a scale of economics. Less, people buying glass, so less money to invest and as production drops, then, glass will get more expensive, or, the profits drop. Either way, I can tell you the management at these glass companies are panicking and trying to figure out what they can do, to stay in business. If they have have half a brain, the management teams will be having 5 year projections and 10 year projections, working out the future.
How, do I know this? I work for a large corporation and we are under huge pressure from competition and the business has had running teams looking out to the future. We are currently looking at redundancies, to “be a leaner, smarter company” cough.
So, yeah, look at what the new stalkers are buying, there is your answer.
look at the best selling rifle and (almost) everybody has a thermal. As the old fogies die out and the yoof come in, they will generally go straight to the electronics. This is already happening.
Yes there are some things that are better about glass, but there are some things that are better about electronics.
Namely, cost, cost, and cost.
Z8i, other brands are available, £2800.
Hik Alpex £850.
Now, on what world are you, as a new stalker, with limited budget, going to go out and buy glass? Let us assume that an electronics scope will last 5 years. That is 15 years of stalking with change left over.
I have posted this before, but, just go to the show, ( the ones that everybody complains are a waste of money) and look at which stands are full of people and which are empty. I did go to the Shooting Show today, easy to see, and leaves no doubt in my mind, glass is under pressure. It will be around for a while, but, it is simply a scale of economics. Less, people buying glass, so less money to invest and as production drops, then, glass will get more expensive, or, the profits drop. Either way, I can tell you the management at these glass companies are panicking and trying to figure out what they can do, to stay in business. If they have have half a brain, the management teams will be having 5 year projections and 10 year projections, working out the future.
How, do I know this? I work for a large corporation and we are under huge pressure from competition and the business has had running teams looking out to the future. We are currently looking at redundancies, to “be a leaner, smarter company” cough.
So, yeah, look at what the new stalkers are buying, there is your answer.
All jokes aside, I've always viewed and hankered after crystal-clear optics not just for their last light capability but primarily to see one's quarry in all its three-dimensional glory. Kind of like that advert from the 70's that extold the virtues of "full living stereo". Or some such.
In the end it's all about what is important to you and floats that canoe.
K
In the end it's all about what is important to you and floats that canoe.
K
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