I started work at 18 on £8.5 a week, was already a member of a smallbore club.
Government responds to 2023 firearms licensing consultation
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
- Start date
doric_prince
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I have just read the coroners report too- very damming of police actions and lack of standardised training. Surly this now need to be the focus of future legislation.
All depends on what your priorities are!
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Yes, investigations into the 2021 Plymouth shootings led to a series of reports issued by the Plymouth Senior coroner, mostly detailing the catastrophic failings of Devon and Cornwall police’s firearms licensing department, calling for national accredited training and a reform of firearms law.
Rather than focusing on the evidence of police failings in this case, anti-gun campaigners and local MP Luke Pollard latched onto suggestions for greater restrictions on shotguns. Mr Pollard even initiated a private members Bill in a failed bid to ban the keeping of pump-action shotguns a home.
The last government adopted a common-sense approach to this pressure, asserting that shotguns were already subject to significant controls that additional restrictions were unnecessary and would have a negative impact on their legitimate use.
BASC has successfully argued the case against knee-jerk ineffective changes in law around shotgun ownership and use for decades with successive governments. So, if the threatened consultation launches, we will again make our case but this time we really will need massive engagement and support from everyone participating in shooting. It is an existential threat to recreational shooting.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Agreed. In many ways it is the failings of the Police to act appropriately according to the information that they had to hand that caused the tragedy. Someone who uses threatening behaviour to a level that requires Police intervention including arrest probably should not have access to firearms. It doesn’t require huge levels of training, just a basic adherence to the law and guidelines already in place.
Martiniblack577
Well-Known Member
The second half of your response does a good job of clarifying my observation of the body. A cursory look at their press releases is compelling! Compare this with the gun control powerhouse:
Press Releases – GCN
gun-control-network.org
Thus, it could be argued the BSSC could consider enhancing its PR on behalf of the community? Or just hire the legal hawk you described to represent everyone !
They (GCN) really are a shameless bunch who (must) knowingly twist things to make it seem licensed firearms are more of a risk than they really are.
Looking at their December report, they’ve listed 4 incidents involving legal guns, which were:
- a man being shot by the police for brandishing a knife (so the ‘legal’ gun is the one used by the police to shoot the knife man)
- a man with a BB gun.
- a man who possessed, by stealing, an air gun when a prohibited person.
- a shot fired by the police at an illegal gun dealer.
So, none of the incidents with legal guns involved someone who was legally entitled to the gun (I’m excluding the BB gun as it isn’t a gun).
Looking at their December report, they’ve listed 4 incidents involving legal guns, which were:
- a man being shot by the police for brandishing a knife (so the ‘legal’ gun is the one used by the police to shoot the knife man)
- a man with a BB gun.
- a man who possessed, by stealing, an air gun when a prohibited person.
- a shot fired by the police at an illegal gun dealer.
So, none of the incidents with legal guns involved someone who was legally entitled to the gun (I’m excluding the BB gun as it isn’t a gun).
That doesn't matter.
The fact is, they're getting their message out there in a way that the general public accept and believe, and we are not.
People will believe what they want to believe, whether it's true or not, and be influenced by it.
The trouble with the types of media campaign usually put out by the pro shooting orgs in the UK is that it always seems to be done in such a way that it's simply preaching to the converted. The type of language used, the type of pictures used, none of these things resonate with Joe Public who's just read a news report about someone getting shot.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
The last GTN quote in the press was August last year. BSSC is not front facing in the way that BASC is, but has influence on the policy front.
@VSS I have to disagree that it doesn’t matter. I take the sentiment that if their message is getting out then it’s still doing damage but that doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant that the message is completely wrong.
I fully expect them to pick the statistic that best suits their narrative (and anticipate anyone on our side will do the same) but putting police use of firearms under the heading of ‘incidents with legal firearms’ is simply misleading and I figure most of Joe Public would look askew at an organisation implying a level of equivalence between police shooting a knifeman and Jake Davison.
In that sense, they should be called out and discredited where appropriate. I also query how the Police and Home Office will take that implication, and their views absolutely matter.
Unlike groups like Wild Justice, GCN doesn’t seem all that media savvy to my mind. Their website is pretty awful to navigate and their press releases tediously heavy with statistics. Indeed, I don’t tend to see them referenced much in the media, unlike WJ, LACS etc.
Out of interest, how would you suggest BASC and others promote shooting? In fairness to them, I do think we have the worse hand when it comes to promotion in our social media/50 words/30 seconds world.
I fully expect them to pick the statistic that best suits their narrative (and anticipate anyone on our side will do the same) but putting police use of firearms under the heading of ‘incidents with legal firearms’ is simply misleading and I figure most of Joe Public would look askew at an organisation implying a level of equivalence between police shooting a knifeman and Jake Davison.
In that sense, they should be called out and discredited where appropriate. I also query how the Police and Home Office will take that implication, and their views absolutely matter.
Unlike groups like Wild Justice, GCN doesn’t seem all that media savvy to my mind. Their website is pretty awful to navigate and their press releases tediously heavy with statistics. Indeed, I don’t tend to see them referenced much in the media, unlike WJ, LACS etc.
Out of interest, how would you suggest BASC and others promote shooting? In fairness to them, I do think we have the worse hand when it comes to promotion in our social media/50 words/30 seconds world.
Subsistence
Well-Known Member
Never really looked at NGO before, and glad it's not the number one hit when you Google it. I understand what they are trying to do but some off it is just stright up false.
Ultimately, legally-obtained guns in every country tend to find their way into the wrong hands,
Show of hands if any of your legally own firearms have ended up in the wrong hands.
I'm fairly confident >99% of legally held firarms in the UK never end up in the wrong hands.
Ultimately, legally-obtained guns in every country tend to find their way into the wrong hands,
Show of hands if any of your legally own firearms have ended up in the wrong hands.
I'm fairly confident >99% of legally held firarms in the UK never end up in the wrong hands.
When I say it doesn't matter, I mean that any time spent trying to refute or correct their statements is time wasted. It really isn't worth it. People will always believe the first story, not the correction.
We need our own positive stories, lots of them, put out there in way that non-shooters can relate to.
Challenging negative stories published by the "opposition" just keeps their negative story at the top of the pile, which is counterproductive.
Martiniblack577
Well-Known Member
But there has been no response to this press release to countenance their angle. And this is where - as a community- our responses remain fractured and poorly unified?
not read all this but is this the document you are all looking at? @Conor O'Gorman looks like you will need the fighting fund. Still reading all of it, but as usual looks like what we say matters not.
given
given
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
The Home Office argues that this power would only be used where there are grounds for reviewing suitability and the certificate holder is uncooperative. That is an inadequate safeguard and BASC is considering the case for legal action under civil rights law should any legislation be tabled.
The Home Office rationale sounds like something borrowed from the Stasi (to name but one).
Morkai
Well-Known Member
Sounds like good reason for them to have a warrant doesnt it?
No need to change anything in thay regard.
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