SGA lead free ammo survey results

[jimmer.13]

There is an increasing body of work looking at how the body naturally controls mutated proteins and cells that are the basis for many cancers. There is one protein, called p53, that controls these mutations and gets rid of mutated proteins and cellular structures. However the effect of lead in your blood seriously harms the p53 protein’s ability to do its job. It seems as if the p53’s ability to fold around and capture harmful protein’s is adversely affected by the presence of lead in you blood, and even a very few nanograms of lead per litre will cause this effect.

Lead enters your body either through breathing in dust containing lead particles and lead compounds- sanding down old paint surfaces without adequate dust protection, or inadequate airflow on an indoor shooting range, or through eating foodstuffs containing lead particles or lead compounds. Lead build up is cumulative and the effect of the lead on your health may never be directly linked.

Most medicine these days looks at treating the symptoms rather than underlying reasons. The question on cause is simply not even asked, nor recorded. In many cases the causative reason is not wanted to be known as this may bring about major liability claims.

However new drugs that remove lead and other heavy metals for treatments of cancer are going through clinical trials, based on work at a preclinical level that is hugely encouraging.

Plenty will say that eating lead never causes any harm. What they do not state is whether or not they are suffering from any of the conditions that are associated with low levels of lead, nor do we yet know if they will suffer such effects.

There however a number of studies on populations that do eat a lot of game meat and long term effects on health of those eating the meat, and on brain development on unborn.

As far as I know there haven’t yet been studies on UK populations looking at long term effects of lead. The raw data is there - all FAC holders medical records are flagged.

If you want to understand the potential effects of lead just read the warnings on any packet of ammunition.

Now I fully appreciate that many still smoke, despite the “smoking kills” warnings on all packets of cigarettes. But smoking is no longer allowed in public places, nor are we wanting to put tobacco into the food chain.

It’s been done to death on this site.
Let’s just take a look at some of this main issues with public health issues in the uk.
Heart disease, obesity, type 2 diabetes, mainly caused by poor diet and unhealthy lifestyle choices.
I don’t see any of the main supermarkets removing unhealthy products from their shelves, even though they are irrefutably linked to all the above.
Absolutely zero, zip, diddly squat evidence of poor health linked to eating game shot with lead.
There seems to be no rush to find out either since we have been doing it for a couple of hundred years or more.
Don’t worry chap keep scouring the internet and you will find something else to worry yourself.
You’re ilk with be the death of our sport and my livelihood. Who needs Chris Packham et al.
You currently have a choice on how to peruse you’re hobby. Go and be happy with it but ffs stop pontificating and telling everybody and the world how to go about theirs.

It’s feckin boring pal

 

[levigsp]

It’s been done to death on this site.
Let’s just take a look at some of this main issues with public health issues in the uk.
Heart disease, obesity, type 2 diabetes, mainly caused by poor diet and unhealthy lifestyle choices.
I don’t see any of the main supermarkets removing unhealthy products from their shelves, even though they are irrefutably linked to all the above.
Absolutely zero, zip, diddly squat evidence of poor health linked to eating game shot with lead.
There seems to be no rush to find out either since we have been doing it for a couple of hundred years or more.
Don’t worry chap keep scouring the internet and you will find something else to worry yourself.
You’re ilk with be the death of our sport and my livelihood. Who needs Chris Packham et al.
You currently have a choice on how to peruse you’re hobby. Go and be happy with it but ffs stop pontificating and telling everybody and the world how to go about theirs.

It’s feckin boring pal

And thats why the EU members rejected the ban on lead, looks lit UK will be alone

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

And thats why the EU members rejected the ban on lead, looks lit UK will be alone

What EU members ?
Rejected what ban?
There are plenty of EU states with the same controls on the use of lead on public land.

Huge amount of hunters on the continent are moving to non lead without any sort of legislation

 

[Apthorpe]

Most of will agree that venison and game is a wonderful wild sourced nutritious food. It is. It provides a resource from non cultivated land that can be used sustainably. And we want the public to consume it.

Yet we still want to shoot it with lead that is regarded by most as highly toxic and harmful. Packaging of game contains warnings of the potential harm it may cause. Indeed so do cartridges.

We stopped using lead in paint, children’s toys and petrol decades ago. There are perfectly good alternatives. Nowadays there perfectly good alternatives to lead for bullets and shot.

Many will disagree with the science and that the earth is flat, and opine all a conspiracy, and it’s against their human rights, but I fully support a ban on lead be used for hunting.

Yawn....at another repetition of irrelevant and scientifically illiterate nonsense.

200 odd experts in the use of this stuff concluded with a fairm majority that using non-lead ammunition has negative consequences, and knuckle-headed flat earthers still insist that bamning lead in ammunition is a good idea referencing irrelevant examples of completely different chemical forms of lead.

 

[Heym SR20]

It’s been done to death on this site.
Let’s just take a look at some of this main issues with public health issues in the uk.
Heart disease, obesity, type 2 diabetes, mainly caused by poor diet and unhealthy lifestyle choices.
I don’t see any of the main supermarkets removing unhealthy products from their shelves, even though they are irrefutably linked to all the above.
Absolutely zero, zip, diddly squat evidence of poor health linked to eating game shot with lead.
There seems to be no rush to find out either since we have been doing it for a couple of hundred years or more.
Don’t worry chap keep scouring the internet and you will find something else to worry yourself.
You’re ilk with be the death of our sport and my livelihood. Who needs Chris Packham et al.
You currently have a choice on how to peruse you’re hobby. Go and be happy with it but ffs stop pontificating and telling everybody and the world how to go about theirs.

It’s feckin boring pal

You really are a very unpleasant and ignorant person are n’t you. I am not scouring the internet. I happen to be working with the scientists who are actually doing the work on how lead harms the body, how it affects p53, and is now bringing treatments to market that reverse the adverse effects of lead in patients suffering acute myeloid leukaemia and small cell lung cancer in the first instance.

The effects of those diseases is not imagined but very real. There is a very strong correlation between elevated levels of heavy metals (including lead) in their blood and the disease and using drugs that remove these metals results in a much improved survival rate.

Lead has long been known to have a very adverse effect on health.

So actually unless you actually know what you are talking about you really do make yourself look a fool. One of the side effects of lead is reduced mental capacity.

I am actually very much pro shooting and conservation. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending that lead is not harmful really does no one any favours. Technologies have moved on since 200 odd years ago.

 

[Smellydog]

Can you expand on your signature
Am intrigued

Any ammunition used on any day by me contains lead.

No one I know has fallen ill from eating shot game including me and my water pipes are lead so I'm not flapping about it and will continue to lose lead ammunition.

My advice would be to be more concerned about agrichemicals in yer foods!

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

No one I know has been killed by a venomous snake….

 

[Smellydog]

No one I know has been killed by a venomous snake….

There you go.

 

[Smellydog]

In fairness I typed in man killed from eating game shot with lead and I don't get a single case. Just ifs, buts, could and maybes.
Bull**** in other terms.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Ah yes
One of the first signs of high levels of lead in the human body is diminished brain capacity..

 

[nun_hunter]

In fairness I typed in man killed from eating game shot with lead and I don't get a single case. Just ifs, buts, could and maybes.
Bull**** in other terms.

The research isn't suggesting that you'll die from acute lead poisoning but that elevated levels of lead and other heavy metals are contributers to other conditions that will kill you.

Much like smoking cigarettes every day won't kill you in the same way as inhaling smoke in a burning building will kill you immediately but prolonged exposure leads to cancer. There was a time when smoking was believed to be safe and actively encouraged even!

Before we had the technology to prove the Earth was round and rooted around the sun people still knew that was the case but couldn't prove it. Although, to be fair even with proof there are still those who don't believe it

Just because we haven't identified a concrete link yet with the technology available doesn't mean it's not there. We know for a fact that lead poisoning is real and it is bad for humans especially the pregnant and kids and although not killing them directly it does lead to other health complications.

 

[sauer]

Studies haven't been done long enough for results
Altho there is no documented cases it's been suggested that there MAY ..be a case that ingested lead over time may lead to increase cases of likes of alzheimers / dementia etc in later life ..

Read into that what you may

Same as anything else in life .. yoy make your own mind / choices


Paul

 

[jimmer.13]

Your typical anti lead ammo punter
At every opportunity

 

[Smellydog]

The research isn't suggesting that you'll die from acute lead poisoning but that elevated levels of lead and other heavy metals are contributers to other conditions that will kill you.

Much like smoking cigarettes every day won't kill you in the same way as inhaling smoke in a burning building will kill you immediately but prolonged exposure leads to cancer. There was a time when smoking was believed to be safe and actively encouraged even!

Before we had the technology to prove the Earth was round and rooted around the sun people still knew that was the case but couldn't prove it. Although, to be fair even with proof there are still those who don't believe it

Just because we haven't identified a concrete link yet with the technology available doesn't mean it's not there. We know for a fact that lead poisoning is real and it is bad for humans especially the pregnant and kids and although not killing them directly it does lead to other health complications.

Best start with agrichemicals first buddy.
Then ban smoking.
Lead ammunition is way down on the list of known toxins that do cause illness but is in every day use.
Even members present here today will attest to a ripe old good age after eating lead shot game and some of us carry lead shot in them.
Go figure...

 

[Smellydog]

Same as anything else in life .. yoy make your own mind / choices

And there's the thing. My, our choice is being taken enyet I can go buy a pack of cigarettes

 

[Apthorpe]

What EU members ?
Rejected what ban?
There are plenty of EU states with the same controls on the use of lead on public land.

Huge amount of hunters on the continent are moving to non lead without any sort of legislation

Which is the proper way to do it. Legislation and regulation force bad outcomes. People should be left

Ah yes
One of the first signs of high levels of lead in the human body is diminished brain capacity..

That's not actually true.

 

[nun_hunter]

Best start with agrichemicals first buddy.
Then ban smoking.
Lead ammunition is way down on the list of known toxins that do cause illness but is in every day use.
Even members present here today will attest to a ripe old good age after eating lead shot game and some of us carry lead shot in them.
Go figure...

I'd be more than happy to look at those too and have anything identified as posing more danger than benefit without a viable alternative controlled. But, that isn't grounds to not look at other areas, especially areas that are already being researched.

 

[David Barker]

Sadly the dealers are making a fortune out of none lead shot and will for profit support it at every turn. Try making it at a similar price to lead Ammo and you would get many using it as a preference. Lets make the dealers take the hit and the venison dealers at the food end.

 

[LuckyEddie]

I’d say lead in game meat it the least of some people’s worries.
Stumbled across this a couple weeks back.

We get rid of lead in our produce but no guarantees that it will be removed from society.
The best way would be to action where it is in the highest concentrations first which would produce a bigger result.

The debate is very similar to ice v EV motoring or going to renewable energy in Britain.
Push Britain into the Atlantic and sink it to see what difference is made to the reduction in CO2 worldwide.

 

[Freeforester]

Ask yourself: Why it is that there are still so many old houses plumbed with lead piping, in the central belt of Scotland for example, if it was the case that lead was so immediately dangerous to human health would it not be reasonable to imagine that far more lives could be saved from lead intoxication by mandating a full change over to either copper of plastic (each with their own issues, but we’ll park that)? For context, the mRNA jab masquerading as a vaccine did far greater damage to human health in mere months than centuries of lead piping.

Read between the Weasley words; it is not lead per se which poses the danger to health but the various oxides and certain compounds of lead, this has been known and acknowledged for decades. The authorities are aware of this, and are as a consequence relaxed about lead piping in homes where humans of all ages (surprise surprise) currently dwell.

The numerous instances of lost & wounded chest shot deer to copper projectiles are well enough catalogued, hence the need to shoot them through the shoulders, and other factors should be borne in mind.