Doors For Gun Room

[Will the chippy]

We’ve got a lathams steel door on our workshop, it’s very good and solid. We’ve used these on a couple or commercial units we’ve built also.

 

[moeggesit]

Why not?

It implies that the room/enclosue is not up to scratch. There is no reason for a cabinet except to keep ammo separate or additional space.

 

[VSS]

It implies that the room/enclosue is not up to scratch. There is no reason for a cabinet except to keep ammo separate or additional space.

No it doesn't!
You could have a multitude of secure storage solutions dotted around your house, and distribute your firearms amongst them as you see fit. Provided that all of those storage areas meet the required specification, and have been inspected by your FEO, it's up to you how you batch up your guns to make best use of space.

 

[moeggesit]

No it doesn't!
You could have a multitude of secure storage solutions dotted around your house, and distribute your firearms amongst them as you see fit. Provided that all of those storage areas meet the required specification, and have been inspected by your FEO, it's up to you how you batch up your guns to make best use of space.

Yes that’s true. It was the suggestion that expensive rifles goes in a safe, nothing wrong with multiple arrangements. Most standard safes is no more secure than a gun room. Valuables safes and vaults on the other hand is a different matter. Usually not suitable for firearms

 

[Jamoy1993]

And i will keep my cabinet for my more expensive items

You might want to not say that to the FEO?
[/QUOTE]

Fine, il keep it to store ammo in then

Either way i will be installing one safe in my Gun Enclosure for ammunition anyways. I do know if you have a few ticketed items they do suggest a split storage throughout the premises in some cases.

 

[Jamoy1993]

I have used Lathems for a door on my house, the service was excellent and the door was seriously solid.

I went for the panelled one with upgraded locks. £399

Even if you went for the heavy duty door opening out, it would be imposable to kick in and vastly more secure than any can cabinet.

Exactly what i am thinking.

 

[Jamoy1993]

I would have thought that the FLO would want all firearms secured to the same security level , regardless of inherent value. By suggesting that the more valuable are somehow worthy of additional security seems odd.

I mean, a gun safe within an enclosure would make sense, this is what i was talking about. Why would the police not want you to secure the more valuable items within several layers?

You might want to not say that to the FEO?

Fine, il keep it to store ammo in then

Either way i will be installing one safe in my Gun Enclosure for ammunition anyways. I do know if you have a few ticketed items they do suggest a split storage throughout the premises in some cases.

 

[VSS]

I mean, a gun safe within an enclosure would make sense, this is what i was talking about. Why would the police not want you to secure the more valuable items within several layers?

Police aren't interested in the monetary value of individual firearms. To them, a gun is a gun, and all should be stored according to their standard.
Value is a personal thing. No reason at all why anyone shouldn't apply a heightened level of security to the guns that, to them, are more valuable, provided that all of your security arrangements meet the minimum standard. There is no maximum.

 

[Jamoy1993]

I am in a similar situation, I have a cupboard in my house which is made of dense concrete block which is a load bearing structure supporting roof trusses. It is 3' deep and 5' wide so the section of the regulations which apply to it is the part about gun enclosures rather than gun rooms:

Gun Enclosure
23. The adaptation of an existing enclosure within the fabric of a building which may be considered to be
suitable for the security of the firearms, shotguns and ammunition where:
a) the enclosure is not to be formed by any walls being of timber and/or plasterboard construction
(studded wall) unless the area has been rendered secure to standards similar to the
recommendations in paragraph 29 below;
b) the door fitted is constructed either as:
i) a security class, laminated or solid timber core door of not less than 44mm thickness; or
or
ii) a timber door lined with sheet steel not less than 16swg, the sheet to be folded round the
locking edge of the door and secured to the door structure with non-return screws or dome
head bolts if externally lined, or steel screws if internally lined. The fixings to be not more than
125mm apart.
24. Hung on good quality hinges. A minimum of two in the case of half height and three if a full height door
is fitted.
25. If the door is outward opening, hinge bolts must be fitted sufficient to retain the door in the event of an
attack on the exposed hinge pins.
26. To be secured by:
a) two mortice locks to at least BS3621 – 2017 or its equivalent;
b) two lock’s from the HELA Tech doc 26/5;
c) driven bolt/multi point locking system, either key or lever operated, providing:
i) three bolts operating equally along the opening edge or opening edge, top and bottom;
ii) the bolts to provide resistance equal to that in BS3621-2017;
iii) lever driven system to be secured by a lock to BS3621-2017
27. Long plate lock boxes, or a 1.6mm (16swg) thick bolt protection strip to be fitted to the frame on the
opening side.
28. If the ceiling of the enclosure is accessible from a vulnerable area, e.g. a loft, its security should be
enhanced by the fitting of an expanded metal mesh, not less than 4mm (8swg) or equivalent. The mesh/grill
section size to prevent any of the contents being removed. Secured to the walls of the enclosure or if an
alarm is fitted, protected by a device for detecting an attack on the mesh.

I didn't see anything saying I needed to have expanded steel mesh on the floor as well as the ceiling so I just planned to do the ceiling. The wooden floor is a lot more sturdy than plasterboard so it would make sense if that was ok.

I didn't see anything on the Lathams doors about hinge bolts, and I wondered if that was because the multipoint locking system also extends out of the hinge side. I plan to ask Lathams about this.

From the wording about door requirements

"i) a security class, laminated or solid timber core door of not less than 44mm thickness; or
or
ii) a timber door lined with sheet steel not less than 16swg,"

This to me means that any of the Lathams security doors would comply. I was going to get a panelled one as it would be similar to the other internal doors in our house, but I think the budget security door would be fine, possibly with an upgraded cylinder.

I was wondering if the dead bolts come out the hinge side too, if they do then that will be perfect as even if the hinges are removed the door will remain wedged into the frame.

 

[Jamoy1993]

Police aren't interested in the monetary value of individual firearms. To them, a gun is a gun, and all should be stored according to their standard.
Value is a personal thing. No reason at all why anyone shouldn't apply a heightened level of security to the guns that, to them, are more valuable, provided that all of your security arrangements meet the minimum standard. There is no maximum.

Exactly what i was thinking too, if they are all stored to the minimum requirements why does it matter to them if i store my more expensive items more securely as long as everything is to minimum standards!

 

[Will the chippy]

I was wondering if the dead bolts come out the hinge side too, if they do then that will be perfect as even if the hinges are removed the door will remain wedged into the frame.

The bolts don't fire out to the hinge side, but the bolts are fixed to engage with the hinge jamb when shut. Our has bolts that shoot out on the the other 3 sides. Top bottom and lock side. All operated with one key, double turned to lock.

 

[Trickyd66]

Police aren't interested in the monetary value of individual firearms. To them, a gun is a gun, and all should be stored according to their standard.
Value is a personal thing. No reason at all why anyone shouldn't apply a heightened level of security to the guns that, to them, are more valuable, provided that all of your security arrangements meet the minimum standard. There is no maximum.

As VSS rightly says (and the point I was trying to make) is that the police don't value the firearm in a financial way, only a safety way. I just think that by adding an extra level of security to what should be already a secure room / enclosure, would suggest to the FEO that if you feel that a higher than specified level of security is required to protect your valuable firearms, so you should be applying the same criteria to all the firearms?

 

[Jamoy1993]

As VSS rightly says (and the point I was trying to make) is that the police don't value the firearm in a financial way, only a safety way. I just think that by adding an extra level of security to what should be already a secure room / enclosure, would suggest to the FEO that if you feel that a higher than specified level of security is required to protect your valuable firearms, so you should be applying the same criteria to all the firearms?

Quite a petty thing if true i think. If you meet the criteria of the enclosure, all else is moot. I would just say I am using those safes to store ammunition as the separate container rule still applies AFAIK.

 

[Radstorm]

If it’s not already been said - if you plan to build a “gun room” it’s worth consulting/ asking / getting on board your FEO / firearms licensing team - or whoever will be signing it off.

Do your homework and don’t try and cut any corners - do as per if not better than the guidance.

 

[Jamoy1993]

If it’s not already been said - if you plan to build a “gun room” it’s worth consulting/ asking / getting on board your FEO / firearms licensing team - or whoever will be signing it off.

Do your homework and don’t try and cut any corners - do as per if not better than the guidance.

Its a Gun Enclosure for sure. Im not even sure what the distinction actually means. Im literally looking for a glorified high capacity gun cupboard built into my house with a heavy door. I figured rather than buying a 300 quid gun safe each time i need one, why not just pay 600 and have a "cupboard" that can hold 30. Seems to be the more economical route. I will await and see what my FEO says.

 

[angusb1]

Its a Gun Enclosure for sure. Im not even sure what the distinction actually means. Im literally looking for a glorified high capacity gun cupboard built into my house with a heavy door. I figured rather than buying a 300 quid gun safe each time i need one, why not just pay 600 and have a "cupboard" that can hold 30. Seems to be the more economical route. I will await and see what my FEO says.

My thinking exactly.

 

[Radstorm]

Firearms security handbook 2020

The firearms security handbook provides guidance on storing and transporting firearms.

www.gov.uk

This is what is a documentation to go off - treat this as minimum - as you have said gun enclosure I assume you have already been reading it.

I agree with what you’re doing - I did a little cupboard which houses 3 Brattonnsound safes - as I didn’t want to invest in a place I will move from, as you have highlighted it’s costly.

 

[welshwarrior]

I know RFDs who have had lathams doors passed for their armouries so should be fine.

 

[Jamoy1993]

Firearms security handbook 2020

The firearms security handbook provides guidance on storing and transporting firearms.

www.gov.uk

This is what is a documentation to go off - treat this as minimum - as you have said gun enclosure I assume you have already been reading it.

I agree with what you’re doing - I did a little cupboard which houses 3 Brattonnsound safes - as I didn’t want to invest in a place I will move from, as you have highlighted it’s costly.

I have been reading it, its practically word for word the same as the PDF i linked in the OP. i still don't see why there is a distinction between a gun room and gun enclosure. The former just being a bigger version of the latter.

 

[Jamoy1993]

I know RFDs who have had lathams doors passed for their armouries so should be fine.

If its good enough for that then it should definately be good enough for what i need it for.