A rant about coarse fishing and river woes

[Apthorpe]

Not many but I'm quite confident that the legislation we have is well-suited to accommodate the ~900k license holders. Germany is 357,592 km² with 1.7 million fishing license holders, the UK 243,610 km², seems roughly co-linear.

You wouldn't know it from the news, given its bias, but German rivers are no cleaner than ours.
Your point on numbers....look at how that applies to England. Scotland distorts the picture because its a very large area with few people. It may well be prejudice, but I suspect there are a large number of fishermen in this country who don't have licences and I'd expect compliance and enforcement to be more effective in Germany.

 

[nun_hunter]

People talking about how overcrowded our country is and how there are too many people to allow us to take fish to eat. Yet all I hear is how the majority of the country doesn't know where food comes from and only eats food that comes in a packet and country ways are being lost. Dwindling numbers of hunters and country sportsmen.

So what is it? Too many people wanting to take wild food or too many people who have no clue where food comes from? Can't moan about both.

 

[Apthorpe]

People talking about how overcrowded our country is and how there are too many people to allow us to take fish to eat. Yet all I hear is how the majority of the country doesn't know where food comes from and only eats food that comes in a packet and country ways are being lost. Dwindling numbers of hunters and country sportsmen.

So what is it? Too many people wanting to take wild food or too many people who have no clue where food comes from? Can't moan about both.

Yes you can. If 80% of the country are in the "don't know where fiod comes from" group, that still leaves an unsustainably large number wanting to take wild food.
My personal view is that the general opinion on rivers has got rather silly. Regardless of where food comes from, 70 million people have an unsustainable effect on an environment this size, however well their waste is processed, and therefore rivers are bound to be heavily degraded.

If you want better rivers, pretending that the water companies are the sole reason for bad rivers is bound to disappoint. If you want a better environment, you need to move to a net-emigration society without delay.

 

[JMikeyH]

Yes you can. If 80% of the country are in the "don't know where fiod comes from" group, that still leaves an unsustainably large number wanting to take wild food.
My personal view is that the general opinion on rivers has got rather silly. Regardless of where food comes from, 70 million people have an unsustainable effect on an environment this size, however well their waste is processed, and therefore rivers are bound to be heavily degraded.

If you want better rivers, pretending that the water companies are the sole reason for bad rivers is bound to disappoint. If you want a better environment, you need to move to a net-emigration society without delay.

Sole reason, perhaps not. I work in civil engineering and often find myself on waste water treatment facilities. Of the dozens I have worked on, there has been one single site which has been in good working order. The majority of them are in terrible condition, many are even capacity bottlenecked by using the same infrastructure that was installed decades ago. One in particular was still using a primary settlement tank that was built in the 50s and vastly undersized for the modern needs. And what happens when the capacity is reached? Diverted to the final effluent outfall, straight into the rivers

 

[Rasputin]

Just been down to my local river as I do most days with the dogs when it’s hot. Whilst the water is actually quite nice in 600/800 yards there’s two spots you can actually get down to the waters edge. The rest is six ft high weeds and balsam choking the banks. Can’t comment as to the fish stocks but makes no odds if you can’t actually get to the water.

 

[Bo Diddley]

Not many but I'm quite confident that the legislation we have is well-suited to accommodate the ~900k license holders. Germany is 357,592 km² with 1.7 million fishing license holders, the UK 243,610 km², seems roughly co-linear.

License holders aren't generally the problem, it's the illegal fishing and BBQs along the waterways that are the problem. These folks pretty much eat everything they catch.
Course fish are not very palatable to us in the UK anymore, but Eastern Europeans still enjoy them.
Our country is too heavily populated to allow this, the Scandies and North America have much more scope to allow this, and in America you have plenty of patrols checking up on everyone, and stiff fines if you are caught flouting the wildlife & game laws. These countries have many more acres of water per head of the population than we do.
In the course fishing world in this country, people with your outlook are mostly extinct like the dinosaurs.

 

[Apthorpe]

Sole reason, perhaps not. I work in civil engineering and often find myself on waste water treatment facilities. Of the dozens I have worked on, there has been one single site which has been in good working order. The majority of them are in terrible condition, many are even capacity bottlenecked by using the same infrastructure that was installed decades ago. One in particular was still using a primary settlement tank that was built in the 50s and vastly undersized for the modern needs. And what happens when the capacity is reached? Diverted to the final effluent outfall, straight into the rivers

Even if all that was up to date and working properly, you're still going to have a very large amount of effluent containing dozens of chemicals and contaminants. Even without them, you've got an environment with large cities, lots of rural road runoff which is not drained at all and very little wetland which is not going to drain in a natural way.

 

[Crowstalker]

Probably going to start a bun fight with this one

I've been a keen sea angler all my life despite living as far from the sea as is possible in England. Recently I have been getting into coarse fishing to scratch the itch somewhat and oh my goodness what a ****ing mess it all is.

The obvious major problem is what the hell has happened to our rivers. The utter state of them is a national disgrace and I would welcome criminal prosecutions to those responsible for destroying our water ways, and these asshole anglers that leave all their **** at the river bank when they're done fishing. People have absolutely no respect for the natural environment these days and it boils my p*ss to see empty cans and bottles, discarded equipment and tackle lining the bank.

Then on top of all that we've got the regulations. Now I don't mind regulations, they're a good thing for preserving fish stocks and so on and I think the general coarse and game fishing regulations in this country are good. Open and close seasons to give fish a break, and if you're of the mind to take a pike or perch home to eat (if you find a stretch of river clean enough) then you can if they're of a certain size. I will say this however, the attitude from the general coarse angler and their associations of disdain towards people who would like to fish for something to eat from their local water is utterly repulsive. If you want to catch and release go ahead, some people might want to take that jack pike home. Presumably we all got into deer stalking for a similar reason. And of course you'll need to find a stretch of river that you can take a fish from which is pretty difficult as the angling associations have lapped up the majority of fishing rights for our water ways and then impart their own rules for it which would then make you liable for theft if you were to ignore them. I don't even want to get started on how I feel about someone owning the fish in the river even if they aren't the land owner (yes I feel the same about the archaic system of sporting rights).

Well at least we can get down to the river to get rid of some invasive crayfish and perhaps get a good feed at the end of it. Or perhaps not, because these same fecking angling associations often forbid crayfishing in their membership rules too! The EA won't even give you a trapping permit these days unless you've got permission from a land owner with rights/association with rights to do so. And then of course you'll need to kill them all immediately upon removal so no chance to purge them.

The absolute state of coarse fishing and rivers for the common man who likes to catch fish to feed himself in this country is a joke. Rant over

I hear you ,

I would say no 1 issues is the water being polluted by agriculture and man made sewage. We simply can't deal with the amount of sewage we are creating. No proper investment by the water companies, population booming by immigration all that waste has to go somewhere. You can't just let the sewage back up into people's homes so the only option is release it into the river.

I often wonder if our rivers weren't as polluted would there be enough decent fish in them that you could take one or 2 home for the pot?

 

[Klenchblaize]

And there was I, convinced the large White Vans to be found encircling ponds, lakes and rivers throughout the UK was with a view to keeping the banks free from empty KFC wrappers and super-strength lager cans at the end of a carp session.

K

 

[Bo Diddley]

If you want clean and tidy you have to go where the public are not permitted to go!

I’ve just done my first nights fishing on a new carp syndicate and it’s absolutely immaculate and so is the river wensum that runs beside it.

The Wensum Valley has some lovely pits all along it as you know. Which one are you fishing? Or would rather not say...

I've had a few seasons years ago on Kingy, and dabbled on Ringland, Clearwater and No3.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

The Wensum Valley has some lovely pits all along it as you know. Which one are you fishing? Or would rather not say...

I've had a few seasons years ago on Kingy, and dabbled on Ringland, Clearwater and No3.

Taverham Mills, proper stunner of a lake the wensum running right beside its right proper!

I can see me loosing aloy of time there

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

And there was I, convinced the large White Vans to be found encircling ponds, lakes and rivers throughout the UK was with a view to keeping the banks free from empty KFC wrappers and super-strength lager cans at the end of a carp session.

K

Day ticket waters yes, I don’t disbelieve you, on the proper syndicates you pick your litter up, if you don’t your gone and no refund!

I have not fished a day ticket for 30 years,I’ve only fished syndicates I’ve always grafted to make sure I could afford to, first one was when I was 15/16 , I keep away from the idiots and the masses!

 

[tarponhead]

The catching or freshwater fish for food is not allowed in any fishing club I have ever been a member of, and it has been like that all my life.
We no longer have close season on still waters, and remember still waters are stocked at great expense to provide sport for the members, not for you to eat.
If you want to eat freshwater fish buy and stock your own personal fishery

Neil.

Agreed but what about game fish? I guess you mean coarse fish- can’t think why you’d want to eat coarse fish but I remember seeing rows of coarse fish for sale in Birmingham markets - the Bullring. I have eaten perch in Ireland - too many bones, so I’m a sea angler for food. My coarse fishing days are probably behind me for all the reasons you state.

 

[stalkerboydy]

Taverham Mills, proper stunner of a lake the wensum running right beside its right proper!

I can see me loosing aloy of time there

A good mate of mine Simon used to run Taverham Mills also used to be some good Barbel in the river there as well Enjoy your fishing mate

 

[Bo Diddley]

Taverham Mills, proper stunner of a lake the wensum running right beside its right proper!

I can see me loosing aloy of time there

Agreed, one of the prettiest waters in Norfolk to fish. Lovely nooks & crannies type bays from what I remember.
Enjoy your angling NDS, I hope you "Bad a Biggun"

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Agreed, one of the prettiest waters in Norfolk to fish. Lovely nooks & crannies type bays from what I remember.
Enjoy your angling NDS, I hope you "Bad a Biggun"

It’s not changed that’s for sure

 

[gelert]

In over 30 years fishing for salmon, sea trout, carp, trout and anything else I have been asked to show my license twice.
I had a syndicate rod on the Welsh dee some years ago, and the man in charge would constantly milk the salmon for the local hatchery, who would in turn re stock the river with thousands of smolts. Small scale I know, but the EA or NRW didn't want to know or contribute sadly.

The Environment Agency’s own reports show most rivers fail to meet good ecological status. Sewage discharges, agricultural runoff, microplastics, invasive species, and habitat destruction are combining into a perfect storm. And enforcement? Often non-existent.

I recall a Ceredigion salmon poacher had a £1 fine after making £61,000 from poached salmon.

You also have the privatization of water companies and their ongoing failure to invest in infrastructure choosing instead to hand out dividends while allowing sewage overflows has drawn increasing public ire.

There's a deep cultural divide in angling between the "sport for sport's sake" crowd and the "catch it, eat it" approach. In Britain, the former has long been dominant, especially in coarse fishing. This is partially a product of tradition, partially of conservation, and partially if we’re honest a snobbery about what “respectable” angling looks like. Do you remember when Hugh Fernley chapped that grayling on the head, and anglers calling for him to be sacked!

In some parts of Europe, eating coarse fish is normal. In Britain, it’s a near-taboo. Pike, perch, zander these are good eating fish, but taking them home can make you persona non grata on many waters. It’s bizarre when you step back and look at it rationally. You’re entirely correct: if it’s legal, respectful of the ecosystem, and sustainable, why should it be vilified?

The signal crayfish problem is also another taboo and are well known destructive, invasive pest but the bureaucracy around dealing with them makes no sense.
If you catch one, the EA advise you to stamp on their head. You’d think DEFRA and the EA would be handing out traps and permits at the bus stop, but no, you need permission from multiple landowners, and even then it’s often impossible to comply fully.

What makes it worse is that removing them for food a perfectly viable way to both enjoy wild food and reduce the population is actively discouraged by over-regulation. Yes, there are biosecurity risks, but with proper oversight, community trapping could be part of the solution.

The Angling Trust (who sometimes get it right, sometimes not), and local river trusts. But the whole system needs a massive shake-up.

Whether you’re fishing for food, fun, or solitude, you should be able to do it without wading through rubbish, legal minefields, and cultural elitism.

 

[Apthorpe]

You also have the privatization of water companies and their ongoing failure to invest in infrastructure choosing instead to hand out dividends while allowing sewage overflows has drawn increasing public ire.

I would just add that it is an a prevalent error to think that the reason our water companies pollute rivers is privatisation and corporate greed. It is a fact that rivers were very much filthier when the water companies were state-owned and even more drastically under-invested in. I only mention this because there is a section of society which thinks that nationalisation would magically make things better. It won't - state-run enterprises are greater failures than private enterprises operating in a state manipulated pseudo-markets.

I absolutely agree about signal crayfish (and other invasive species). It's absolute madness to have any red tape at all around these species. People should be encouraged to kill them in as great numbers as they can.

 

[Flash G 74]

Probably going to start a bun fight with this one

I've been a keen sea angler all my life despite living as far from the sea as is possible in England. Recently I have been getting into coarse fishing to scratch the itch somewhat and oh my goodness what a ****ing mess it all is.

The obvious major problem is what the hell has happened to our rivers. The utter state of them is a national disgrace and I would welcome criminal prosecutions to those responsible for destroying our water ways, and these asshole anglers that leave all their **** at the river bank when they're done fishing. People have absolutely no respect for the natural environment these days and it boils my p*ss to see empty cans and bottles, discarded equipment and tackle lining the bank.

Then on top of all that we've got the regulations. Now I don't mind regulations, they're a good thing for preserving fish stocks and so on and I think the general coarse and game fishing regulations in this country are good. Open and close seasons to give fish a break, and if you're of the mind to take a pike or perch home to eat (if you find a stretch of river clean enough) then you can if they're of a certain size. I will say this however, the attitude from the general coarse angler and their associations of disdain towards people who would like to fish for something to eat from their local water is utterly repulsive. If you want to catch and release go ahead, some people might want to take that jack pike home. Presumably we all got into deer stalking for a similar reason. And of course you'll need to find a stretch of river that you can take a fish from which is pretty difficult as the angling associations have lapped up the majority of fishing rights for our water ways and then impart their own rules for it which would then make you liable for theft if you were to ignore them. I don't even want to get started on how I feel about someone owning the fish in the river even if they aren't the land owner (yes I feel the same about the archaic system of sporting rights).

Well at least we can get down to the river to get rid of some invasive crayfish and perhaps get a good feed at the end of it. Or perhaps not, because these same fecking angling associations often forbid crayfishing in their membership rules too! The EA won't even give you a trapping permit these days unless you've got permission from a land owner with rights/association with rights to do so. And then of course you'll need to kill them all immediately upon removal so no chance to purge them.

The absolute state of coarse fishing and rivers for the common man who likes to catch fish to feed himself in this country is a joke. Rant over

Hello, Agree with everything you say J Mikey, Although today i would not take a Pike/Perch/Trout to eat out of any River, Even the local Thames,

 

[nf-fuse]

The rules with signal cray fish just describes modern Britain in a nut shell.