BASC welcomes government announcement on sound moderators

[Conor O'Gorman]

I am looking at producing a list of FAQs for the BASC website on the government's announcement to deregulate sound moderators. Below are various questions from various places. Feel free to add more questions (and suggested answers if you wish) for me to consider with colleagues.

What will happen to the sound moderator slot on my ticket? Can I repurpose it for another firearm or will I just lose it?

Will I need to post my ticket in for sound moderators to be taken off? Is there any cost involved?

Will there be a limit of how many sound moderators can be owned?

Will you still need to dispose of sound moderators through an RFD?

How will this affect people who have sound moderators for sub 12ft air rifles and shotguns?

Will flash-hiders also be deregulated?

Will sound moderators still need to be securely stored in line with Home Office guidance?

 

[Dalua]

You have been clear about your concerns and I find your concerns speculative, pessimistic and unevidenced.

The evidence I keep pointing to is manifest historically, including in the recent history of your organisation.

BASC is not going to stop its lobbying efforts for improvements in firearms licensing on behalf of its members.

There are two problems here:
first, that the results of your involvement will more than likely affect all shooters - not just your members. These to me suggests you have a duty to be circumspect beyond your fan-base and its potentially-limited world view.
Second, although I don't think anyone would wish you to stop your 'lobbying': done well, it would be one of the best things BASC could do. However, I remain concerned that those involved continue to underestimate the skills of HO, Police and Government in handling them and their 'lobbying' - as manifest by relatively-recent outcomes. You are not, as far as I can tell, using the longer-term lessons of history, not learning from the more-recent ones.

My concerns are undeniably speculative, as I guess any view into the future must be.
I contend, however, that they are evidenced; and that this evidence seems more evident the more BASC commentary I read.
Based on that I regret very much that far from being pessimistic, by concerns are simply realistic.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

The evidence I keep pointing to is manifest historically, including in the recent history of your organisation.

There are two problems here:
first, that the results of your involvement will more than likely affect all shooters - not just your members. These to me suggests you have a duty to be circumspect beyond your fan-base and its potentially-limited world view.
Second, although I don't think anyone would wish you to stop your 'lobbying': done well, it would be one of the best things BASC could do. However, I remain concerned that those involved continue to underestimate the skills of HO, Police and Government in handling them and their 'lobbying' - as manifest by relatively-recent outcomes. You are not, as far as I can tell, using the longer-term lessons of history, not learning from the more-recent ones.

My concerns are undeniably speculative, as I guess any view into the future must be.
I contend, however, that they are evidenced; and that this evidence seems more evident the more BASC commentary I read.
Based on that I regret very much that far from being pessimistic, by concerns are simply realistic.

Thanks, I have read your comments. I would be interested in any FAQs you could suggest.

 

[SCB]

Thanks, I have read your comments. I would be interested in any FAQs you could suggest.

So will they still need to be transferred via RFD?
Thanks
SCB

 

[fallow me]

Sounds like its still going to be at least another 2 year wait then !!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Sounds like its still going to be at least another 2 year wait then !!

FAQ:

When will the change in law take effect?

Implementation requires a legislative opportunity to table amendments to the Firearms Act 1968. This could be later this year or possibly 2026.

 

[Elshad]

I am looking at producing a list of FAQs for the BASC website on the government's announcement to deregulate sound moderators. Below are various questions from various places. Feel free to add more questions (and suggested answers if you wish) for me to consider with colleagues.

What will happen to the sound moderator slot on my ticket? Can I repurpose it for another firearm or will I just lose it?

Will I need to post my ticket in for sound moderators to be taken off? Is there any cost involved?

Will there be a limit of how many sound moderators can be owned?

Will you still need to dispose of sound moderators through an RFD?

How will this affect people who have sound moderators for sub 12ft air rifles and shotguns?

Will flash-hiders also be deregulated?

Will sound moderators still need to be securely stored in line with Home Office guidance?

Will online sales be allowed?

 

[Chill 123]

Hi Connor give up , and agree everyone has there point of view . Personally I am happy that moderators are to be removed from my FAC and I cant understand how anyone would think this was a negative step regardless if you are a BASC member or not ?

Chill

 

[Dalua]

Personally I am happy that moderators are to be removed from my FAC and I cant understand how anyone would think this was a negative step regardless if you are a BASC member or not ?

Chill

The problem seems to me to be that the current position is that you don't need an FAC to own mods: you just have variations to allow to own them when they're fitted to S1 firearms. The trade, and FAC-holders tend to behave as if moderators after being written onto an FAC magically become S1 items in their own right - but that doesn't actually seem to be true. It is a convenient way to proceed in the absence of crystal clarity on this, and the FLDs (unsurprisingly) seem to like/encourage it.

If my opinion (for that is all it is, of course) is correct, it might be altogether easier if the HO simply clarified the current position: so that mods unattached to S1 firearms could be sold freely as the unrestricted items that they clearly are intended to be under current law - and instructed its FLDs to act accordingly: with moderator 'slots' simply issued per rifle, completed on first purchase of any mod intended for that rifle with 'no marker/no number' - after which the FAC-holder is clearly entitled to own/use that rifle with a moderator attached. Which moderator is of no matter. The slot is technically vacant as soon as the mod's taken off the rifle, and filled again when it's on - but no-one cares about that. It's just the the FAC under current law would clearly allow the FAC-holder to fit a mod to a particular S1 firearm.


After the proposed change, the Minister says that you will need an FAC to own/buy a moderator - which, while it might mean in one sense moderators are 'removed from your FAC' potentially starts us all on a path to all sorts of other problems...

 

[Dalua]

FAQ:
When will the change in law take effect?

That almost sounds as though there's already been a change in the law - which there hasn't.

Does BASC have any insights into what what the new law will actually say? This really does have the potential to cause more problems than it solves, I think.

 

[25 Sharps]

The change of approach on medical fees was challenged and there are many aspects of medical involvement in firearms licensing still be to resolved. These things take time and moderators is a case in point given this is the first change in approach for almost 60 years. And when implemented it will significantly reduce police workload on firearm certificates, given that for the last decade around a third of the circa 600,000 firearms covered by a firearm certificate in England and Wales were sound moderators.

It’s good news but I really don’t think it will significantly reduce workload. It’s a few key strokes, the reason being I suspect 95% or more moderator applications are combined with a rifle application, so they’ll be doing the work anyway just not adding the moderator.

 

[25 Sharps]

I am looking at producing a list of FAQs for the BASC website on the government's announcement to deregulate sound moderators. Below are various questions from various places. Feel free to add more questions (and suggested answers if you wish) for me to consider with colleagues.

What will happen to the sound moderator slot on my ticket? Can I repurpose it for another firearm or will I just lose it?

Will I need to post my ticket in for sound moderators to be taken off? Is there any cost involved?

Will there be a limit of how many sound moderators can be owned?

Will you still need to dispose of sound moderators through an RFD?

How will this affect people who have sound moderators for sub 12ft air rifles and shotguns?

Will flash-hiders also be deregulated?

Will sound moderators still need to be securely stored in line with Home Office guidance?

Are these for the website or to pose to the policy makers?

If the former, there is no way that anyone can answer them until the legislation comes into place .

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

That almost sounds as though there's already been a change in the law - which there hasn't.

Does BASC have any insights into what what the new law will actually say? This really does have the potential to cause more problems than it solves, I think.

We have published what we know to far. I think FAQs will help disentangle many of the issues - real and perceived.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Are these for the website or to pose to the policy makers?

If the former, there is no way that anyone can answer them until the legislation comes into place .

It will be a bit of both.

 

[Dalua]

We have published what we know to far. I think FAQs will help disentangle many of the issues - real and perceived.

Your organisation has asked the Government to do something, and on one level the Government appears to have agreed.

This is probably the point at which a prudent organisation would make a coherent suggestion to HM Govt as to what change to legislation would allow the government's decision (as welcomed by BASC) apparently to 'remove the licensing requirement for sound moderators' to co-exist with the Minister's statement that holding an FAC will be a prerequisite to lawful possession of sound moderators.

 

[Heym SR20]

It’s good to see that Government Ministers appear to be listening to good sense. However, as the BSAC’s statement points, ministers are recommending that this will require change in the primary legislation and thus will require parliamentary time for debating the Firearms Act.

One would like to think that they will take the time to simplify the whole process, make the focus on the individual and his / her suitability to possess and use firearms rather than on whether its a 7-08 or 308 etc.

But MPs have a real ability to make things very complicated, most do not understand the difference between a shotgun and a rifle let alone all the other niceties.

I can’t help feeling that whilst the Firearms Act and licensing is far from perfect, I rather fear that MPs will want even more restrictions on how we possess and use firearms.

 

[trickie]

Your organisation has asked the Government to do something, and on one level the Government appears to have agreed.

This is probably the point at which a prudent organisation would make a coherent suggestion to HM Govt as to what change to legislation would allow the government's decision (as welcomed by BASC) apparently to 'remove the licensing requirement for sound moderators' to co-exist with the Minister's statement that holding an FAC will be a prerequisite to lawful possession of sound moderators.

I agree with @Dalus’s post above but not all he’s written before that.

Hopefully BASC will be lobbing for moderators to be treated in the way that primers and powder are (you may of course disagree) that to buy the buyers needs to show just cause in the form on an FAC that shows a suitable firearm/s. From that point no entry onto the FAC, and no need for an ongoing traceable line of documentation. Basically moderators are a consumable item. And no need for secure storage.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Your organisation has asked the Government to do something, and on one level the Government appears to have agreed.

This is probably the point at which a prudent organisation would make a coherent suggestion to HM Govt as to what change to legislation would allow the government's decision (as welcomed by BASC) apparently to 'remove the licensing requirement for sound moderators' to co-exist with the Minister's statement that holding an FAC will be a prerequisite to lawful possession of sound moderators.

I would recommend reading the following article again to gain a better understanding of the government announcement and BASC's response on all aspects of that announcement, before seeking to offer BASC advice, whilst offering no update from your "new representative body".

BASC welcomes government announcement on sound moderators

Following years of lobbying, BASC has welcomed the Government’s decision to remove the licensing requirement for sound moderators.

basc.org.uk

Given your comments on this, medical involvement in firearms licensing and the use of the word 'consistency' by BASC, I am not sure you have a good understanding of firearms law and licensing.

 

[Dalua]

Given your comments on this, medical involvement in firearms licensing and the use of the word 'consistency' by BASC, I am not sure you have a good understanding of firearms law and licensing.

I'm sure you're right - but perhaps you could help to address my ill-informed concerns about the ongoing lawful possession of moderators by non-FAC-holders?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I agree with @Dalus’s post above but not all he’s written before that.

Hopefully BASC will be lobbing for moderators to be treated in the way that primers and powder are (you may of course disagree) that to buy the buyers needs to show just cause in the form on an FAC that shows a suitable firearm/s. From that point no entry onto the FAC, and no need for an ongoing traceable line of documentation. Basically moderators are a consumable item. And no need for secure storage.

There does not need to be any regulation at all. Moderators are an accessory the same as a sling or gun slip.