Sound moderators deregulation - FAQ

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC has published some FAQs following the government's announcement that it will be removing sound moderators from firearms licensing controls.

Sound moderators: what you need to know

Following the government announcement in June on sound moderators being removed from firearms licensing, we answer some of your questions.

basc.org.uk

 

[Bowland blades]

long, long over due move , lets hope nobody rallies against it

 

[ContinShots]

BASC has published some FAQs following the government's announcement that it will be removing sound moderators from firearms licensing controls.

Sound moderators: what you need to know

Following the government announcement in June on sound moderators being removed from firearms licensing, we answer some of your questions.

basc.org.uk

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about sound moderators not having to be sold face-to-face by an RFD or via RFD transfer. Existing law absolutely requires sound moderators to be sold through the RFD process. And why on earth wouldn't they, given they go on slots on FAC like other S1 component parts and accessories? Please get this error amended ASAP, before you discuss anything further with the UK Government. Getting a slot for a mod is a doddle. Always has been. I've got more slots for them than I need. The issues has always been not being able to buy them online and having to pay ridiculous RFD transfer fees, unless your local RFD stocks them.

As an aside, I also know more than a few RFDs who do not agree with your claim that S2 sound moderators are already exempt from licensing. S2 shotguns are still firearms and still subject to the definition of a firearm, but they are a subgroup with a specific definition to do with barrel length, magazine capacity etc. The argument I have heard made by those more knowledgeable than me is that there's nothing that explicitly says shotgun moderators fall outwith licensing at present or that says the sound mod subsection of the definition of a firearm doesn't apply to firearms that are shotguns, thus they are still subject to the RFD process above, if nothing else. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know precisely, but there's enough doubt here that I think BASC needs to show its legal advice on this matter so we don't ended up with flawed legislation.

 

[Diggerdez]

@continshot you beat me to it,

 

[VSS]

I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong about sound moderators not having to be sold face-to-face by an RFD or via RFD transfer. Existing law absolutely requires sound moderators to be sold is the RFD process. And why on earth wouldn't they, given they go on slots on FAC? Please get this error amended ASAP, before you discuss anything further with the UK Government. Getting a slot for a mod is a doddle. Always has been. I've got more slots for them than I need. The issues has always been not being able to buy them online and having to pay ridiculous RFD transfer fees, unless your local RFD stocks them.

No, he's not wrong.

You can buy any moderator, unregulated, in England and Wales, on the basis that it could be for use on a sub-12ft/lbs air rifle, without any paperwork or rfd involvement at all.

You can then take that moderator you've just bought and put it on a Sec 1 firearm, and only at that point does it become a licensable item requiring entry on a FAC.

 

[ContinShots]

No, he's not wrong.

You can buy any moderator, unregulated, in England and Wales, on the basis that it could be for use on an airgun, without any paperwork or rfd involvement at all.

You can then take that moderator you've just bought and put it on a Sec 1 firearm, and only at that point does it become a licensable item requiring entry on a FAC.

That's a totally different matter. Try buying yourself a 223 or 9mm sound moderator for your 'sub12 air weapon' online and see how you get on. In fact, try buying yourself a sub12 mod online from the vast majority of RFDs and see how you get on...the VCRA literally proscribes it and requires it to go via RFD.

Edit:

Just to expand on that, 'air weapons"are firearms. They are still covered by the exact same definition in the 1968 Act as S1 firearms, however that also benefit from an exception under S1 that allows them to be owned without a certificate in England & Wales. That exception relates solely to their muzzle energy under subordinate legislation, nothing else. In other words, the rest of the definition of a 'firearm', including sound mods being classed as a firearm, still applies to air weapons.

The we have to jump to the VCRA, which makes it absolutely clearly that air weapons must be sold by way or trade or business face to face or via RFD transfer. Given sound mods ARE air weapons for the purposes of the law, just as they are S1 firearms under the law, it means that air weapon moderators absolutely do have to be sold via RFD/RFD transfer if the sale is anything but a second hand one between individuals.

Air weapons must be sold by RFDs:

Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006

An Act to make provision for reducing and dealing with the abuse of alcohol; to make provision about real and imitation firearms, about ammunition and about knives and other weapons; to amend the Football Spectators Act 1989 and the Football (Disorder) Act 2000; to amend the Sexual Offences Act...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Air weapons must be sold face-to-face:

Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006

An Act to make provision for reducing and dealing with the abuse of alcohol; to make provision about real and imitation firearms, about ammunition and about knives and other weapons; to amend the Football Spectators Act 1989 and the Football (Disorder) Act 2000; to amend the Sexual Offences Act...

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[Diggerdez]

Can you tell me any RFD that is willing to let anybody purchase a moderator of licence on the pretence it going on an Airgun. Let's say 30 Cal for Arguments sake, I don't think they would

 

[ContinShots]

Can you tell me any RFD that is willing to let anybody purchase a moderator of licence on the pretence it going on an Airgun. Let's say 30 Cal for Arguments sake, I don't think they would

Of course they wouldn't, because they'd know that a 30cal sub12 air weapons would barely dent a sheet of plywood, it would have to be FAC for it to be practicable, hence the sound mod for it is also going to be S1.

 

[VSS]

Can you tell me any RFD that is willing to let anybody purchase a moderator of licence on the pretence it going on an Airgun. Let's say 30 Cal for Arguments sake, I don't think they would

Well I have two identical moderators, both purchased from the same gun shop (rfd), one of which was entered on my FAC for use on a .22lr, and the other one was sold to me "off licence", not recorded on my FAC, for use on a sub 12 air rifle.
Identical in all respect.
I don't even know which one is which.

 

[Archer]

Well I have two identical moderators, both purchased from the same gun shop (rfd), one of which was entered on my FAC for use on a .22lr, and the other one was sold to me "off licence", not recorded on my FAC, for use on a sub 12 air rifle.
Identical in all respect.
I don't even know which one is which.

Exactly the same for me

 

[ContinShots]

And here's a link to BASC's own guide on the VCRA, where they confirm that sound moderators (other than those sold privately, not for trade or business) are subject to RFD sales processes. And because they're subject to that - which only applies because the 1968 defines sound mods as being firearms - they are also subject to the distance selling restrictions that were also brought in by the VCRA:

https://firearmsuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/vcrguide.pdf

 

[ContinShots]

Well I have two identical moderators, both purchased from the same gun shop (rfd), one of which was entered on my FAC for use on a .22lr, and the other one was sold to me "off licence", not recorded on my FAC, for use on a sub 12 air rifle.
Identical in all respect.
I don't even know which one is which.

Sure. One is legally S1 and the other is not. The law may very well be an ass (and it absolutely is when it comes to all sound moderators) but that doesn't change it being the law. I also have airgun mods that would fit on my FAC rifles, but I don't put them on my FAC rifles because, technically, that would be a breach of the law if they weren't held under an FAC slot (they'd also need cleaning, which is a more acute issue).

 

[VSS]

Sure. One is legally S1 and the other is not. The law may very well be an ass (and it absolutely is when it comes to all sound moderators) but that doesn't change it being the law. I also have airgun mods that would fit on my FAC rifles, but I don't put them on my FAC rifles because, technically, that would be a breach of the law if they weren't held under an FAC slot (they'd also need cleaning, which is a more acute issue).

Ok, so now you agree with me, in so far as a moderator that could potentially be used on a Sec1 firearm can legally be purchased "off ticket", and no law is broken unless it is subsequently attached to a Sec1 firearm without the necessary slot on the FAC to do so?

So, expanding upon that in a logical way, you could therefore, in advance, purchase an unlicensed moderator suitable for use on a .22lr, and keep it until such time as you acquire a suitable .22lr to put it on, and a vacant mod slot for use with that .22lr, at which point the moderator could be "upgraded" to Sec1 and added to your FAC?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about sound moderators not having to be sold face-to-face by an RFD or via RFD transfer. Existing law absolutely requires sound moderators to be sold through the RFD process. And why on earth wouldn't they, given they go on slots on FAC like other S1 component parts and accessories? Please get this error amended ASAP, before you discuss anything further with the UK Government. Getting a slot for a mod is a doddle. Always has been. I've got more slots for them than I need. The issues has always been not being able to buy them online and having to pay ridiculous RFD transfer fees, unless your local RFD stocks them.

As an aside, I also know more than a few RFDs who do not agree with your claim that S2 sound moderators are already exempt from licensing. S2 shotguns are still firearms and still subject to the definition of a firearm, but they are a subgroup with a specific definition to do with barrel length, magazine capacity etc. The argument I have heard made by those more knowledgeable than me is that there's nothing that explicitly says shotgun moderators fall outwith licensing at present or that says the sound mod subsection of the definition of a firearm doesn't apply to firearms that are shotguns, thus they are still subject to the RFD process above, if nothing else. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know precisely, but there's enough doubt here that I think BASC needs to show its legal advice on this matter so we don't ended up with flawed legislation.

If you believe that to be true then that is something you will have to take up with the BASC firearms team.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

And here's a link to BASC's own guide on the VCRA, where they confirm that sound moderators (other than those sold privately, not for trade or business) are subject to RFD sales processes. And because they're subject to that - which only applies because the 1968 defines sound mods as being firearms - they are also subject to the distance selling restrictions that were also brought in by the VCRA:

https://firearmsuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/vcrguide.pdf

That's not the BASC website and is a broken link. BASC guidance docs on firearms are here :

Firearms

Whether you are new to owning a firearm and are looking for general information, or would like more detailed advice, we’ve got you covered.

basc.org.uk

 

[ContinShots]

That's not the BASC website and is a broken link. BASC guidance docs on firearms are here :

Firearms

Whether you are new to owning a firearm and are looking for general information, or would like more detailed advice, we’ve got you covered.

basc.org.uk

It was still a BASC production with the police/FELWG, was it not? Was FELWG just wrong on its interpretation of the law? Worrying if that's the case.

Now attached to this message...

 

[ContinShots]

If you believe that to be true then that is something you will have to take up with the BASC firearms team.

I've never received a response to any recent enquiries with them. I am a member of 3 other shooting organisations, there's not enough money to join them all, and I asusme that they don't reply because BASC isn't one of them. As BASC has taken it upon itself to be the body representing everyone on this issue, perhaps you could please pass on these concerns given they could affect every FAC holder (and possibly SGC and air weapon holders too) and I know for a fact there are a many FAC holders and RFDs who are currently deeply concerned by what BASC has alleged in that article. Removal from the face-to-face sale requirement is arguably the main benefit for most shooters, the FAC slot issue is in many ways secondary given many forces hand out sound mod slots like candy.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

It was still a BASC production with the police/FELWG, was it not? Was FELWG just wrong on its interpretation of the law? Worrying if that's the case.

Now attached to this message...

I don't know the ins and outs of that. You have attached a 2008 document. Please refer to latest BASC advice on our website.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I've never received a response to any recent enquiries with them. I am a member of 3 other shooting organisations, there's not enough money to join them all, and I asusme that they don't reply because BASC isn't one of them. As BASC has taken it upon itself to be the body representing everyone on this issue, perhaps you could pass on these concerns given they could affect every FAC holder (and possibly SGC and air weapon holders too) and I know for a fact there are a many FAC holders and RFDs who are currently deeply concerned by what BASC has alleged in that article. Removal from the face-to-face sale requirement is the main benefit for shooters, the FAC slot issue is secondary given most forces handed out sound mod slots like candy.

If your query is policy related please feel free to email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

 

[paul o']

common sense has prevailed