308 or 30-06 or 270

[HonestJohn]

Sorry but pointability is about rifle not barrel. Balance depends on a lot of things, sometimes longer barrel balances worse. And other things being equal, longer barrel leads to less precise shooting (barrel time).

(there are at least two sides to almost anything)

Cobblers

Most well balanced rifles have between 24-26”, yes, crappy plastic stock rifles will balance with shorter barrels because the cheap injection moulded stocks. Do f class shooters use 16-18” ? Didn’t think so.

A longer and heavier barrel on a rucksack on the hill with a 25mph gusty wind will sit a lot steadier than a lightweight plastic gun with a 16” barrel. There’s day and night difference in the steadiness of the sight picture in fact. And subsequent accuracy (accuracy in this case determined by the shooter, not the barrel).

How well would you shoot if your shotgun barrel was cut in half? Swing and balance would be off, weight in the rear, etc.

I’m guessing you may have perhaps never handled rifles designed for shooting standing/ offhand, and or with open sights.

 

[tackb]

Cobblers

Most well balanced rifles have between 24-26”, yes, crappy plastic stock rifles will balance with shorter barrels because the cheap injection moulded stocks. Do f class shooters use 16-18” ? Didn’t think so.

A longer and heavier barrel on a rucksack on the hill with a 25mph gusty wind will sit a lot steadier than a lightweight plastic gun with a 16” barrel. There’s day and night difference in the steadiness of the sight picture in fact. And subsequent accuracy (accuracy in this case determined by the shooter, not the barrel).

How well would you shoot if your shotgun barrel was cut in half? Swing and balance would be off, weight in the rear, etc.

I’m guessing you may have perhaps never handled rifles designed for shooting standing/ offhand, and or with open sights.

shotguns and rifles are very different things for very different purposes and it's silly to make comparisons

but i'll leave it there as you don't seem to want to consider anyone elses knowledge

 

[Rory]

Ha ha, does anyone read the thread, especially the OP?
I'd go for recommending the .308 over the .30-06 and .270 for range work at the distances you've mentioned.
.30-06 and .270 have a lot of felt recoil for marginally superior velocities. Someone mentioned downloading the .30-06 - yes, you can do that, but why, when you can have a more efficient burn with a 95%-100% full load in a .308 for the same velocities?
.308 is ubiquitous and variations of bullet, powder and case are almost infinite for a handloader.

 

[HonestJohn]

shotguns and rifles are very different things for very different purposes and it's silly to make comparisons

but i'll leave it there as you don't seem to want to consider anyone elses knowledge

For rifle shooting in woodland or close proximity, having a rifle that will handle like a shotgun will deliver far more satisfactory and enjoyable results.

Take a light plastic thumbhole stock .308 with 16” barrel and try to use it in driven boar, then compare it to an open grip well balanced longer rifle that comes up like a shotgun and swings beautifully.

I’d argue for many applications, there is a strong relationship between rifle and shotgun.

Trouble is, these days most people just plonk themselves down in the mud behind the comfort of a bipod, with little actual skill in field positions. Many times I have had people out where they are frantically searching for a place to lie down to take a shot, sweating and worrying about it.

But then, would I want to cull hinds on the hill with an O/U double, no.

 

[nun_hunter]

For rifle shooting in woodland or close proximity, having a rifle that will handle like a shotgun will deliver far more satisfactory and enjoyable results.

Take a light plastic thumbhole stock .308 with 16” barrel and try to use it in driven boar, then compare it to an open grip well balanced longer rifle that comes up like a shotgun and swings beautifully.

I’d argue for many applications, there is a strong relationship between rifle and shotgun.

Trouble is, these days most people just plonk themselves down in the mud behind the comfort of a bipod, with little actual skill in field positions. Many times I have had people out where they are frantically searching for a place to lie down to take a shot, sweating and worrying about it.

But then, would I want to cull hinds on the hill with an O/U double, no.

You seem to be talking exclusively about balance in the context of taking standing swinging shots on moving targets. That may be the case but the majority of UK deer stalkers aren't doing that. Nor are they using heavier wooden stocked rifles with open sights and no moderators etc.

Balance for me in a rifle means when carrying it on my shoulder it's not flopping about everywhere and when I bring it up to my shoulder it doesn't feel as though the end of the barrel is being pulled to the ground. I'm not swinging the rifle to bear on moving deer.
I am carefully and slowly moving the rifle into position as to not scared off the group of fallow that have suddenly appeared out of apparent things air. Having a short barrel and lighter stock means my rifle balances much better during this task, and has less chance of getting caught up on branches. At less than 100m the deer don't notice the slightly reduced velocity nor the fact the stock is synthetic.

 

[Dickie]

As always the SD massive go off on tangents to the OP IT'S FOR TARGET SHOOTING.
Can I as how you came to these 3 chamberings as your choice? 6.5 discounted for obvious reasons as stated.

 

[Chris Richardson]

I feel this is a trap, but I'll oblige...

I have a .308 and a 6.5 creedmmor, they are both great cartridges for target and stalking.

If you are only going to target shoot have you considered a 6.5 creedmoor (less recoil, flatter shooting, higher BC and less susceptible to wind drift) the .308 will have a higher barrel life if you plan to shoot alot though.

good for roe at over 400 yards too chest only though

 

[tackb]

good for roe at over 400 yards too chest only though

404m , 308 winny knife tip is the bullet impact

 

[Rafter]

404m , 308 winny knife tip is the bullet impact

Baaaaad man.
You should have got closer and shot it with a 270.
You'll never get to heaven shooting deer past 325.7m, dontcha know. SD has spoken.

 

[tackb]

Baaaaad man.
You should have got closer and shot it with a 270.
You'll never get to heaven shooting deer past 325.7m, dontcha know. SD has spoken.

it was a very tricky shot as well you know , the deer was laying exactly as it was hit (on it's side) and i had the use mortar calcs to hit it since the glittery brick is soo loopy

 

[jthyttin]

Do f class shooters use 16-18” ? Didn’t think so.

You really have no clue...

In longer range stuff barrels are chosen with MV in mind. Point blank BR they're cut for utmost mechanical accuracy with 6PPC, was it 21-3/4" or thereabouts. Also weight limits apply in both.

In positional shooting, where MV doesn't get affected (within reason) barrels are counterbored to something like 12-14" and the rest is only for hanging the front sight.

You really seem to have no idea of driven hunt either, of course it can be done in several ways. For most the "swingability" doesn't come into equation.

But I'll leave you swinging those impulsive woodland shots, and try to keep out of the way...

 

[JohnCZ]

Let's stumble into this trap...

On the range the 30-06 and 308 for all round shooting are the same thing until you get to 178gr BTHP and heavier, enter the Lapua 155gr and a long barrel and the 308 will eat it's lunch (kind of).
270 is a hunting round and great for deer however 30-06 is better with modern loadings and heavier high BC bullets in the 170gr to 190gr weights. On the other hand a 308 will also work just fine, I like the Barnes 150gr TTSX on reds, rolls them over no problems as does the '06. Meanwhile, the 270Win is lame, it is like owning a 1957 Chevy with a 6 cylinder engine, why? Just joking, great cartridge just not a target cartridge.

What about 6.5x55 (what is a mod range, no idea in Oz) great for hunting and target shooting.

I hate to say this but if you are just target shooting get a 223Rem with a 1:8 barrel, load some heavy for caliber high BC bullets and go at it for a portion of the cost, recoil and blast.

 

[JohnCZ]

404m , 308 winny knife tip is the bullet impact

When I saw this photo I thought you took a 404m knife shot, 2025 anything long range goes

 

[ejg]

If one has a shot at winning a world championship and these three cartridges are the choice one might have advantages with the 270/30-06, even so only maybe. Even in F-Class the strongest and most fancy cartridge does not always win. Too many other factors play a role.
I would 100% choose the 308, cheapest factory ammo, longest barrel life, recoil is certainly lighter than 30-06 and one can enter 308 or FTR competitions.
We have been working on rifle balance/rifle setup and materials since about ten years now, had two German institutes involved and my old physics prof in proving theories which led to a patent on a balance device for rifles. In the meantime I shoot very lightweight rifles with barrel lengths between 20" and 24". I never before had rifles as light nor as accurate in the past. There are a few things that are important and other factors that are not. Some factors contribute to mm improvements others to inches of improvement.
edi

 

[angusb1]

Let's stumble into this trap...

On the range the 30-06 and 308 for all round shooting are the same thing until you get to 178gr BTHP and heavier, enter the Lapua 155gr and a long barrel and the 308 will eat it's lunch (kind of).
270 is a hunting round and great for deer however 30-06 is better with modern loadings and heavier high BC bullets in the 170gr to 190gr weights. On the other hand a 308 will also work just fine, I like the Barnes 150gr TTSX on reds, rolls them over no problems as does the '06. Meanwhile, the 270Win is lame, it is like owning a 1957 Chevy with a 6 cylinder engine, why? Just joking, great cartridge just not a target cartridge.

What about 6.5x55 (what is a mod range, no idea in Oz) great for hunting and target shooting.

I hate to say this but if you are just target shooting get a 223Rem with a 1:8 barrel, load some heavy for caliber high BC bullets and go at it for a portion of the cost, recoil and blast.

Shooting an 88gr ELD-M in a 24" barrel 223 and a 178gr ELD-M in a 24" barrel 308, you would need similar windage at 600. The elevation drop is also very similar. They are similar because the bullets have almost identical BC. As John says above, the cost and recoil is lower on the 223 so you will probably shoot it better and be able to shoot it more because it is cheaper.

The 223 wins in my book.

 

[Lithyuk]

Let's stumble into this trap...

On the range the 30-06 and 308 for all round shooting are the same thing until you get to 178gr BTHP and heavier, enter the Lapua 155gr and a long barrel and the 308 will eat it's lunch (kind of).
270 is a hunting round and great for deer however 30-06 is better with modern loadings and heavier high BC bullets in the 170gr to 190gr weights. On the other hand a 308 will also work just fine, I like the Barnes 150gr TTSX on reds, rolls them over no problems as does the '06. Meanwhile, the 270Win is lame, it is like owning a 1957 Chevy with a 6 cylinder engine, why? Just joking, great cartridge just not a target cartridge.

What about 6.5x55 (what is a mod range, no idea in Oz) great for hunting and target shooting.

I hate to say this but if you are just target shooting get a 223Rem with a 1:8 barrel, load some heavy for caliber high BC bullets and go at it for a portion of the cost, recoil and blast.

Hi mate, thanks for your response, it’s a range used by the army, ministry of defence. There very struck of late with certain calibres. 6.5 being 1 of them not allowed.

 

[JockStalk]

If it’s to 600 why not 223 fast twist?

And I’d throw in 6.5-284

 

[Lithyuk]

If it’s to 600 why not 223 fast twist?

And I’d throw in 6.5-284

Hi mate, I do use a 223 up to 300m at times but the ranges are so bleak there wide open to the elements the 223 is badly effected with the wind. Ideal at 300 though

 

[BSAMarty]

Personal preference for me is the .308
Ammunition is available most everywhere, and you can reload it for lots of different bullet weights but 155 gr Sierra Match Kings would be my preference for long range targets.
Especially the PALMA bullets if you can get them where you are

The other 2 you mention - .270 & 30-06 certainly are good rounds but you would be wasting powder and bashing your shoulder for no appreciable gain in accuracy or trajectory.

44.1 grains of BL-C(2) powder, standard primer, 155 Gr SMK at 100y.

 

[A Guy Out West]

As others have said, in that line up, the 30/06 is the best choice. Versatility is the reason. The other two would be running close seconds, the .270 with a 135 gr. Sierra can be a dandy too. Nothing at all wrong with the .308 either.