Ban on lead shot what about old guns

[Apthorpe]

HP steel cartridges should say so on the cartridge and be marked 1050 bar i have yet to see any in a case length less than 3”or 12ga

Does anyone know why it takes substantially more pressure to get HP steel to velocities which some standard lead loads reach?

 

[Heym SR20]

All I know is in my hatsan semi auto the full shoke says lead shot only and then this makes this choke completely redundant when lead being banned
I have seen no test or any scientific prof that bismuth or tungsten plastic shot if consumed is better for you then lead (I do know we have been using lead rounds since the invention of the gun and have been consuming lead pellets in game since then)
With the exception of a clay range how much lead is really being scatted over a 20 hecters of field is causing that much damage to the soil

And before any bans being put in place a price alternative should be matched and proper studies of the effects of the alternative shot being done on barrels and human consumption

Re lead being spread about. Take a typical peg on a driven shoot. Most of the shot will go into 100m radius. Each cartridge contains 30grams of lead. Do some basic maths and you can quickly work put how much lead is spread over the area. A hectare is 100 square metres.

 

[Smellydog]

HP steel cartridges should say so on the cartridge and be marked 1050 bar i have yet to see any in a case length less than 3”or 12ga

I've got some fiocchi 70mm. Say 1050bar.

 

[Apthorpe]

Re lead being spread about. Take a typical peg on a driven shoot. Most of the shot will go into 100m radius. Each cartridge contains 30grams of lead. Do some basic maths and you can quickly work put how much lead is spread over the area. A hectare is 100 square metres.

More bull5h1t. A hectare is 10,000 square metres. And shot carries up to 300m.

 

[Apthorpe]

Regardless of the above, taking his point in the spirit intended, it is therefore obviously the case that, at worst, only small areas are contaminated with lead and the actual habitats of the birds only lightly spread.

 

[grandad of the woods]

I've got some fiocchi 70mm. Say 1050bar.
View attachment 429644

On a side note m8 has just bought the hatsan escort lux and I must say it's a very nice gun

 

[HonestJohn]

Re lead being spread about. Take a typical peg on a driven shoot. Most of the shot will go into 100m radius. Each cartridge contains 30grams of lead. Do some basic maths and you can quickly work put how much lead is spread over the area. A hectare is 100 square metres.

And the shooter who declines birds at the end of the day, but opts for a slap up steak instead, isn’t exposed. But if the same drive had had tons and tons of lead spread over it over decades, and arables are grown on those fields. One might ask the question, is there lead poisoning inadvertently imposed on consumers of farming products?

If so, perhaps we are poisoning unknowing consumers and yet frequently declining to consume the meat we shoot ourselves.

Just asking

 

[Smellydog]

And the shooter who declines birds at the end of the day, but opts for a slap up steak instead, isn’t exposed. But if the same drive had had tons and tons of lead spread over it over decades, and arables are grown on those fields. One might ask the question, is there lead poisoning inadvertently imposed on consumers of farming products?

If so, perhaps we are poisoning unknowing consumers and yet frequently declining to consume the meat we shoot ourselves.

Just asking

Probably to the same degree a keen gardener poisons his own food by watering with rain water off his lead covered roof.

 

[Klenchblaize]

One thing you may be assured of in this matter is the Authorities; along with certain interested parties, that have been instrumental in the passing of this Legislation have zero concern for whether certain fowling peices are made obsolete by the restrictions.

K

 

[shakey jake]

Re lead being spread about. Take a typical peg on a driven shoot. Most of the shot will go into 100m radius. Each cartridge contains 30grams of lead. Do some basic maths and you can quickly work put how much lead is spread over the area. A hectare is 100 square metres.

Dont think a hectare is, that sounds very small

 

[Liveonce]

I've got some fiocchi 70mm. Say 1050bar

interesting does the packaging say they are high performance steel?

as the review suggests 830bar must be that the momentum is above 12Nm and 740bar is Pmax 850 PK

Fiocchi Wetland Steel Cartridges

Bruce Potts tests some cartridges from Fiocchi's steel shot range

www.gunmart.net

 

[Smellydog]

I think the

interesting does the packaging say they are high performance steel?

as the review suggests 830bar

Fiocchi Wetland Steel Cartridges

Bruce Potts tests some cartridges from Fiocchi's steel shot range

www.gunmart.net

Says on the cartridge 1050 bar max and the box says only use in steel proof guns bearing the appropriate stamp.

 

[VSS]

Dont think a hectare is, that sounds very small

A hectare is 100 metres × 100 metres, so thats 10,000 square metres.

 

[shakey jake]

A hectare is 100 metres × 100 metres, so thats 10,000 square metres.

Thats what i thought

 

[VSS]

Dont think a hectare is, that sounds very small

A hectare is 100 metres × 100 metres, so 10,000 square metres, or 2.47 acres.

I expect he meant to type 100 metres squared, rather than 100 square metres.

 

[Smellydog]

If our friend has got that wrong what else is wrong!

 

[Liveonce]

I think the

Says on the cartridge 1050 bar max and the box says only use in steel proof guns bearing the appropriate stamp.

which is ok so long as you keep them in the box and the printing does not ware away on the cartridge case if carried lose in the pocket for awhile.

So Fiocchi look not to offer any standard steel for live quarry only HP.

 

[Smellydog]

which is ok so long as you keep them in the box and the printing does not ware away on the cartridge case if carried lose in the pocket for awhile.

So Fiocchi look not to offer any standard steel for live quarry only HP.

Yes they do mate. I tried a box last winter. They were nigh on useless.
I agree about the labeling. The lower pressure offerings I tried were all but identical!
Interesting times lie ahead!

 

[Apthorpe]

If our friend has got that wrong what else is wrong!

The majority.

 

[Utectok]

So as has been mentioned all 70mm modern shotguns will fire “normal steel”. 2.5” proofed guns I don’t thinks so. The advice is no more than 1/2 choke.
To fire HP steel you need the steel fluer de leys hp proof gun. And also less the 1/2 choke. Having said that most modern guns will fire high pressure cartridges. Most wildfowlers I know including myself shoot HP steel through non steel proofed guns. I have a 1985 3” chambered beratta and I’ve shot loads of hp steel through it. I don’t think beretta changed the design they just upgraded the proof. I shoot a tight 1/2 a tight 1/4 long chokes on it.
Of course reproofing is an option but I’ve never seen the need.
Moving to steel is a pain but it’s not the end of the world as most wildfowlers know.