Interesting article on 243, BASC magazine

[enfieldspares]

“Having fired a couple of boxes through my Lancaster, I conducted an almost forensic examination for any signs of damage and found none. I was also impressed with the clean burn of the powder, which left little or no fouling… Armed with a belt full of these, I now have the confidence to use steel cartridges in my 112-year-old gun. Not only has my gun been given an extension to its useful life, but I feel better for knowing that I will not be depositing several pounds of a poisonous heavy metal onto the Shropshire countryside each season.” ~ Bill Harriman, BASC Director of Firearms

Conor O'Gorman said:
BASC has not jumped on any "anti-lead bandwagon"

Anti-lead? But else is that but anti-lead?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

“Having fired a couple of boxes through my Lancaster, I conducted an almost forensic examination for any signs of damage and found none. I was also impressed with the clean burn of the powder, which left little or no fouling… Armed with a belt full of these, I now have the confidence to use steel cartridges in my 112-year-old gun. Not only has my gun been given an extension to its useful life, but I feel better for knowing that I will not be depositing several pounds of a poisonous heavy metal onto the Shropshire countryside each season.” ~ Bill Harriman, BASC Director of Firearms

Conor O'Gorman said:
BASC has not jumped on any "anti-lead bandwagon"

Anti-lead? But else is that but anti-lead?

That's not anti-lead, that's a fact, as regards the impact of lead shot on the many birds that ingest it when that lead shot is made available in that way.

 

[Smellydog]

Offs.....
Somebody shut the voice of shooting up, they are making a right mess of sucking up to the wrong azz's.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Offs.....
Somebody shut the voice of shooting up, they are making a right mess of sucking up to the wrong azz's.

That's perhaps ironic coming from a chap who regularly rants about freedom of choice and rallies against communism and dictatorships - but when your world view is challenged off you run to get your censorship jack boots on to shut people up....

Now as regards BASC lobbying for .243 to be exempt from a 2029 lead ban, where do you stand on that?

 

[enfieldspares]

That's not anti-lead, that's a fact, as regards the impact of lead shot on the many birds that ingest it when that lead shot is made available in that way.

So does BASC support a ban on the use of lead shot for clay pigeon shooting?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

So does BASC support a ban on the use of lead shot for clay pigeon shooting?

No. Does your organisation support such a ban?

 

[Donkey Basher]

Yeh he's talking bol****s as per. Its something he always seems to miss. You usually tend to get higher velocity with lead if using the same bullet weight eg 100g lead 100g lead free, the lead will tend to have a tad higher velocity.

Also on the BC, it does have some differences but the biggest issue is velocity for bullet expansion. The 123g in 6.5 being fired out of creedmoor has a maximum range for expansion a little over 200 yards. Anything after that, your bullet isn't expanding. You load up the same bullet weight with say the 123g SST and your sailing all the way out to 600 getting reliable expansion.

Sorry if I’ve missed something but what 123gn bullet are you referring to that won’t expand past 200 yards & why exactly?

 

[enfieldspares]

No. Does your organisation support such a ban?

So, please, what difference does it make if the lead shot is being fired at clay pigeons that BASC does not support a ban on lead shot for such?

"I feel better for knowing that I will not be depositing several pounds of a poisonous heavy metal onto the Shropshire countryside each season.”

It either is or it isn't also depositing several pounds of toxic metal" into the countryside? Is it not?

Does BASC not see that the public, and the Government hasn't, and won't see there being any difference either?

This is the same nonsense that "X is bad, but if we now call X Y, then it isn't bad" that was deployed when the Thatcher Government called for a ban on centrefire self loading rifles.

I recall the British Shooting Sports press conference (advised by their then lobbyists 'Advocacy') where the then spokesman said that whilst they supported a ban on the Michael Ryan used AK 47 they didn't support a ban on the L1A1 SLR. To which a young woman journalist stood up as asked "What's the difference?"

By promoting your voluntary lead ban on the grounds of lead shot being a poison ingested by birds as grit you have also legitimised that argument being used against clay pigeon shooting alongside any other argument concerning post ban misuse of clay cartridges to shoot game.

An argument from a position that lacks consistency is the argument of a fool. And those that oppose us have not even got started on plastic wads.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

So, please, what difference does it make if the lead shot is being fired at clay pigeons that BASC does not support a ban on lead shot for such?

"I feel better for knowing that I will not be depositing several pounds of a poisonous heavy metal onto the Shropshire countryside each season.”

It either is or it isn't also depositing several pounds of toxic metal" into the countryside? Is it not?

Does BASC not see that the public, and the Government hasn't, and won't see there being any difference either?

This is the same nonsense that "X is bad but Y isn't bad" that was deployed when the Thatcher Government called for a ban on centrefire self loading rifles.

I recall the British Shooting Sports press conference (advised by their then lobbyists 'Advocacy') where the then spokesman said that whilst they supported a ban on the Michael Ryan used AK 47 they didn't support a ban on the SLR. To which a young woman journalist stood up as asked "What's the difference?"

By promoting your voluntary lead ban on the grounds of lead shot being a poison ingested by birds as grit you have also legitimised that argument being used against clay pigeon shooting alongside any other argument concerning post ban misuse of clay cartridges to shoot game.

An argument from a position that lacks consistency is the argument of a fool.

You have not answered my question. Let's try again. Does your organisation support a ban on the use of lead shot for clay pigeon shooting?

 

[enfieldspares]

You have not answered my question. Let's try again. Does your organisation support a ban on the use of lead shot for clay pigeon shooting?

My organisation did not support any end to the use of lead shot for any kind of shooting. Be that live quarry shooting or clay pigeon shooting. And yours? Did they support an end to the use of lead shot for live quarry shooting?

We know that don't we. BASC proposed and led the call for an end to lead for live quarry shooting yet still will not make the minutes public at the BASC Council Meeting where this was discussed. Why not?

Is not the reason for BASC's remaining mute on those proceeding that their initiative to call for an end for lead shot was wholly motivated by its attempting to claim that big bag shooting is "harvesting game for the market"? And that any continued use of lead shot by anybody for any game shooting undermined that argument?

So there had to be a call to end the use of lead shot as supermarkets were no longer taking birds so shot?

You could of course refute my belief in which I am not on my own by releasing those minutes from that meeting that still are held back as "confidential". By refusing to do that and having them mute your organisation merely reinforces the belief that everyone else was "thrown under the bus" to protect big bag commercial shooting.

 

[Heym SR20]

According comments to most on this post, feck alone knows how I managed to shoot this buck just now. 150 yards with a 40 year old Heym SR20 243, a 3-9x36 Swarovski Nova Scope, 80gn Fox bullet at 150 yds, and a pair of 7x42 30 year old Zeiss bins. Spotted with naked eye. No range finder either and off twin sticks with arm on a fence post. Dropped on the spot.

One of many deer I have shot with this combination over the years, including several reds.

 

[Ratel]

You have not answered my question. Let's try again. Does your organisation support a ban on the use of lead shot for clay pigeon shooting?

Nit picking Conor doesn't do anybody any good. Has anybody done any research on shooting estates to see if the ingestion of steel pellets, or bismuth as grit has any detrimental effect on birds. I'll bet they haven't.

 

[Chris Richardson]

View attachment 436391

According comments to most on this post, feck alone knows how I managed to shoot this buck just now. 150 yards with a 40 year old Heym SR20 243, a 3-9x36 Swarovski Nova Scope, 80gn Fox bullet at 150 yds, and a pair of 7x42 30 year old Zeiss bins. Spotted with naked eye. No range finder either and off twin sticks with arm on a fence post. Dropped on the spot.

One of many deer I have shot with this combination over the years, including several reds.

Is that how we should all shoot wise one ? Again you seem to very much promote the use of old style gear , ( I have a lot of it myself ) but only with new fangled bullets as we should “ move with the times “

 

[jimmer.13]

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

My organisation did not support any end to the use of lead shot for any kind of shooting. Be that live quarry shooting or clay pigeon shooting. And yours? Did they support an end to the use of lead shot for live quarry shooting?

We know that don't we. BASC proposed and led the call for an end to lead for live quarry shooting yet still will not make the minutes public at the BASC Council Meeting where this was discussed. Why not?

Is not the reason for BASC's remaining mute on those proceeding that their initiative to call for an end for lead shot was wholly motivated by its attempting to claim that big bag shooting is "harvesting game for the market"? And that any continued use of lead shot by anybody for any game shooting undermined that argument?

So there had to be a call to end the use of lead shot as supermarkets were no longer taking birds so shot?

You could of course refute my belief in which I am not on my own by releasing those minutes from that meeting that still are held back as "confidential". By refusing to do that and having them mute your organisation merely reinforces the belief that everyone else was "thrown under the bus" to protect big bag commercial shooting.

Again, you have not answered my question. Let's try yet again. Does your organisation support a ban on the use of lead shot for clay pigeon shooting?

Also, as regards the OP and BASC lobbying for .243 to be exempt from a 2029 lead ban, where do you stand on that?

 

[enfieldspares]

View attachment 436391

Thank you for providing some much needed relief on this thread by sharing that. In fact ninety minutes ago I sauteed some pieces of venison haunch for my twelve year old for his supper.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Sorry if I’ve missed something but what 123gn bullet are you referring to that won’t expand past 200 yards & why exactly?

That example was a fox/barnes 120g/123g in 6.5mm and the reason why is the number for reliable expansion is the 2200fps mark. Maybe slightly lower with fox but only marginally.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

View attachment 436394

Firstly, neither I nor BASC support a lead ban. Secondly, as a fellow Viz reader surely you can do better than that as regards pointless satire? It might be time to wheel out some AI generated satire based on trawling the misinformation and ridiculous comments on this forum. Mind you Comrade Smellydog might try to have me locked up in some Gulag for doing so.

 

[Smellydog]

That's perhaps ironic coming from a chap who regularly rants about freedom of choice and rallies against communism and dictatorships - but when your world view is challenged off you run to get your censorship jack boots on to shut people up....

Now as regards BASC lobbying for .243 to be exempt from a 2029 lead ban, where do you stand on that?

You've lobbied to have me silenced plenty.

Re 243 and BASC, I couldn't care less.
243 will be exempt anyway, it was revealed to me a couple of years ago.
Air gun pellets also before your gang did any lobbying for which your gang likes to take credit for.
It's been used as a bargaining chip so organisations like yours gain psuedo credits from the blinded masses.
You scratch their backs , they scratch yours and the minions pay for your jolly days out.
Win win hey... Conor.

 

[enfieldspares]

Also, as regards the OP and BASC lobbying for .243 to be exempt from a 2029 lead ban, where do you stand on that?

I don't support any ban on any calibre lead bullets for shooting cloven footed game be that 6mm, .27", 7mm, .30" or whatever diameter bore. Nor do I support a ban on lead buckshot and lead slug for 12 bore shotguns used under the "crofter exemption".

Yet as others have said there are alternatives of eighty grain weight non-lead that can be used in the 6mm bores that contributors here have proven are stable in flight, accurate on arrival and terminal in the execution they deliver.

Now, as I have said, there appear no alternatives to lead shot loaded cartridges in .22" Rimfire shotguns and 9mm Rimfire shotguns. Yet when I have asked if you would propose and exemption for these you have dismissed such.

Can we but guess that within the curtilage of Marford Mill there are more people that own rifles in .243 Winchester than own .22" and 9mm Rimfire shotguns? Because whilst you support one exemption but oppose the other I suggest it does seem like that.

Does BASC support or not (or will it lobby for an exemption) the ban on the use of lead buckshot and lead slug in 12 bore shotguns used under the "crofter exemption"?