German Study on eating lead shot game

[Dalua]

Shows are markedly higher levels of lead in the blood of German hunters who regularly eat lead shot game meat.

This is the last paragraph of the author's conclusion - I've put some bits in bold:

In conclusion, concentration of lead in blood was significantly higher in game meat consumers compared to study participants consuming no game meat. Additionally, in study participants with no game meat consumption, blood lead concentration was significantly higher in those who perform active hunting as well as shooting. However, overall differences in lead blood concentrations were very low and mostly below the biological tolerance value of 200 µg·L− 1. Nevertheless, game meat consumers as well as active hunters and shooters should take in to account their potential for an increased lead exposure and the corresponding potential health risks. Monitoring of blood lead level may detect concentrations above the recommended threshold.

What I understand them to be describing here is that the differences in blood lead levels between the two groups have met an accepted statistical standard which is taken to mean that the difference observed is unlikely to have occurred by chance - i.e. there is a statistically-significant difference.

They have identified in the previous paragraph to the one I've quoted that there are (to my eye, at least) important potential factors which they have not taken into account - which might make one take a view on the actual significance of this statistically-significant difference.

The main thing, though, is the second bit I've put in bold - where they point out that this statistically-significant difference is in fact very small (rather than 'markedly higher' in game-eaters) - and therefore is of questionable actual significance.

 

[Freeforester]

Fun fact: everyone who eats organic food ends up dead. Even carrots are deadly, just slower acting than destroying angels and ricin pie…

 

[HonestJohn]

Why don’t you boys just..

View attachment 437053

Just to clarify. Silly joke, nothing personal to do with Mungo. Last I’d want is to accidentally offend anyone.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Aren’t you against a lead ban ?

Indeed, but that does not mean being blind to the various studies that indicate there are risks to be acknowledged and considered, whether for adverse impacts on wildlife or human health. BASC and WAGBI before it have always advocated self-regulation rather than legislation. You are aware of the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting and see also BASC's Sustainable Shooting Code of Practice - a code of practice for wildfowl quarry species.

Sustainable Shooting Code of Practice

Read our code of practice on shooting wildfowl, waders and rail species sustainably in England, Scotland and Wales.

basc.org.uk

The following golden rules apply​

1. To ensure shooting is sustainable, those who shoot must adhere to the species-specific shooting recommendations.
   a. Pochard – no take – targeted conservation effort required.
   b. Pintail – take a maximum of two birds per day – targeted conservation effort required.
   c. Woodcock – delay shooting until late November where resident woodcock are present.
   d. Scaup – show restraint, site-based considerations required.
   e. Goldeneye – delay shooting until October where resident goldeneye are present.
   f. European white-fronted goose – take a maximum of two birds per person, per day.
   g. Common snipe – delay shooting until 1 September where resident snipe are present.
2. Eat what you shoot. It is your responsibility to ensure all shot quarry is put to good use.
3. Where not already required by law, consent, or lease, shooters should collect bag data and submit information for all wildfowl species to a national monitoring scheme.
4. Shooters should contribute to habitat creation, management, and restoration initiatives.
5. Shooters should assist with citizen science initiatives including bird counts, ring recovery reporting, wing surveys, disease monitoring, etc.

 

[Sol]

Is there any information on this study on what game meat people were eating? I would have to imagine the lead impacts of venison, compared too shotgunned game Is massively different In terms of lead dosing.

As much as I appreciate a study the current agenda for the UK between us Is does venison actually have any major effect? In reality It does not take much thinking too assume eating pheasant elevates lead levels, Its inevitable, however venison on the other hand

 

[Bowland blades]

any evidence of illness in said hunters that can be proven from eating lead shot game ? it says in the study that smoking can cause elevated lead levels which they dont account for too.....

Nobody could be Sure at all where the lead came from ! Anyone in thier later fourties up will have been around lead pipes supply , lead paint etc etc etc ,etc.

 

[Tim.243]

Is there any information on this study on what game meat people were eating? I would have to imagine the lead impacts of venison, compared too shotgunned game Is massively different In terms of lead dosing.

As much as I appreciate a study the current agenda for the UK between us Is does venison actually have any major effect? In reality It does not take much thinking too assume eating pheasant elevates lead levels, Its inevitable, however venison on the other hand

The game dealers have been taking and processing lead shot deer pheasants partridges pigeons hares wild boar for decades. Yes decades way before a lot of members were born, if it had been a problem back then like it is made out to be now then they are the ones who have been jumping up are down as it would have a direct effect on their business.
Ben Rigby is celebrating 46 years!

It is easy to squeeze a small number of shooters but a nation is not so easy despite being £15.00 a pkt
Money/duty rules the FAG business.

They jump up and down about lead yet, millions of cigarettes are sold/smuggled/smoked in the UK each year

Health warnings began to appear on cigarette packets in the USA in 1966, with a general warning on the side of the pack. The UK introduced its first, voluntary, health warnings on packets in 1971,

Those who are stupid enough to smoke please chip in now

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

The game dealers have been taking and processing lead shot deer pheasants partridges pigeons hares wild boar for decades. Yes decades way before a lot of members were born, if it had been a problem back then like it is made out to be now then they are the ones who have been jumping up are down as it would have a direct effect on their business.
Ben Rigby is celebrating 46 years!

It is easy to squeeze a small number of shooters but a nation is not so easy despite being £15.00 a pkt
Money/duty rules the FAG business.

They jump up and down about lead yet, millions of cigarettes are sold/smuggled/smoked in the UK each year

Health warnings began to appear on cigarette packets in the USA in 1966, with a general warning on the side of the pack. The UK introduced its first, voluntary, health warnings on packets in 1971,

Those who are stupid enough to smoke please chip in now

I’m rather partial to a woodbine on the sly (when she you must be obeyed is not around!)

So I’m proper buggered

 

[Heym SR20]

Nobody could be Sure at all where the lead came from ! Anyone in thier later fourties up will have been around lead pipes supply , lead paint etc etc etc ,etc.

There is a very good reason why the younger generations are no longer around lead pipes, lead paint, lead in petrol etc etc.

 

[Tim.243]

There is a very good reason why the younger generations are no longer around lead pipes, lead paint, lead in petrol etc etc.

Yes but the smoke cigarettes vape and sniff gas at will but saved by not having lead pipes
Get a grip

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

There is a very good reason why the younger generations are no longer around lead pipes, lead paint, lead in petrol etc etc.

Sir I do believe you are somewhat blinded by bull , I am yet to have or see any proof that lead although toxic has killed or chemically poisoned a human through the consumption of lead shot game meat.

As highlighted by Tim, you have more chance of being killed from smoking and drinking than lead in game meat.

So please do us all a favour and jump off your soap box, I really don’t want to add you to my growing list of idiots, but all this tripe is starting to wear a tad thin.

 

[HonestJohn]

Quick question to everyone, if you had the choice between consuming and serving to your family/kids, lead shot game or non-toxic, what would you opt for?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Quick question to everyone, if you had the choice between consuming and serving to your family/kids, lead shot game or non-toxic, what would you opt for?

it’s dead lead or copper makes no difference to us, both lead and copper are toxic

Lead shot fallow loin this evening and bloody lovely it way too

 

[HonestJohn]

it’s dead lead or copper makes no difference to us!

Lead shot fallow loin this evening and bloody lovely it way too

Everyone thankfully has the right to do what they want, still! Thank god! But, that’s said, I only feed my family on non-toxic shot game these days, just doesn’t feel right knowing lead could be harmful. It may not be, but prefer to err on the side of caution with the kids. The wife gets the lead shot game

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Everyone thankfully has the right to do what they want, still! Thank god! But, that’s said, I only feed my family on non-toxic shot game these days, just doesn’t feel right knowing lead could be harmful. It may not be, but prefer to err on the side of caution with the kids. The wife gets the lead shot game

I get that, but what’s going to stop your children at the age of 18 going drinking or smoking they will be adults, exactly the same as my daughter!

But I will say I had a bet with my daughter that if she didn’t drink before she was 21 I’d give her £500, within inflation and pressure from the wife that is now £1000

She wouldn’t give her rare venison up for £1000 shot either lead or copper

 

[HonestJohn]

I get that, but what’s going to stop your children at the age of 18 going drinking or smoking they will be adults, exactly the same as my daughter!

But I will say I had a bet with my daughter that if she didn’t drink before she was 21 I’d give her £500, within inflation and pressure from the wife that is now £1000

She wouldn’t give her rare venison up for £1000 shot either lead or copper

That’s a fair point.

 

[eldon]

Lead shot mince burgers for us tonight and meatballs for later in the week.

I only feed my family on non-toxic shot game these days, just doesn’t feel right knowing lead could be harmful. It may not be, but prefer to err on the side of caution with the kids. The wife gets the lead shot game

My choice is to carry on as I have before and to oppose banning things in the first place!

When butchered, aren't we cutting around the damage site and disposing of all that which may have any question marks at all?
I don't feel I'm knowingly feeding anyone lead whether it be my family or the landowners etc who enjoy the efforts of my endeavours.

 

[Dalua]

Is there any information on this study on what game meat people were eating? I would have to imagine the lead impacts of venison, compared too shotgunned game Is massively different In terms of lead dosing.

As much as I appreciate a study the current agenda for the UK between us Is does venison actually have any major effect? In reality It does not take much thinking too assume eating pheasant elevates lead levels, Its inevitable, however venison on the other hand

First, there's really not much difference shown by this study between the two groups.

Second, I suspect absorption from ingested lead depends on surface area per mass - so a pellet of No6 is likely be markedly-less problematic than the same mass of lead (or less, even) in itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny fragments in the shoulder-meat of deer killed with high-velocity fragmenting bullet.

But then - who would not discard the meat from around such a bullet-strike?

 

[HonestJohn]

Lead shot mince burgers for us tonight and meatballs for later in the week.

When butchered, aren't we cutting around the damage site and disposing of all that which may have any question marks at all?
I don't feel I'm knowingly feeding anyone lead whether it be my family or the landowners etc who enjoy the efforts of my endeavours.

The issue is that lead based bullets disperse tiny fragments of lead throughout the carcass that you won’t see. It’s well Documented that fragments from even chest shot deer can end up in the saddle and further afield. With copper, as they don’t leave anything behind, you know that whilst there May be bloodshot meat, there’s no material left behind as they retain around 96-98% weight

 

[eldon]

The issue is that lead based bullets disperse tiny fragments of lead throughout the carcass that you won’t see. It’s well Documented that fragments from even chest shot deer can end up in the saddle and further afield. With copper, as they don’t leave anything behind, you know that whilst there May be bloodshot meat, there’s no material left behind as they retain around 96-98% weight

Head shot

I don't get the "as they don't leave anything behind" bit, surely there has to be a trace of what ever has passed through, no?

Did you know, tomatoes were once thought of as poisonous due to the pewter trays.

I'm sorry, but at the end of the day we are all going to die.... after we've paid enough taxes..... and it doesn't really matter, does it?