Driven foxes - maximum range?
- Thread starter chriswjx
- Start date
Couldn't agree more with this gentleman .
My dad told me this as a young boy. Have spent my life chasing these fantastic creatures WHEN causing damage. They deserve the most respect from us to put them on the ground cleanly
Not on a busy organised driven day
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
That is rubbish jall,at least here the mix is fine. Nearly every rural community has driven days for foxes just about every weekend without problems.
We used "twos" when doing dens with terriers for close shooting and they were very good on running foxes at forty yards too. Many here uses 'BB`s' but we found that they often rolled in the fur once the range was extended somewhat. One will shoot at a fox much further especially if there is a staghound soon to be blowing wind up its arse. One must remember that the string of shot when delivered will have some pellets enter behind the shoulder when the foreleg is forward opening up the softer skin behind,direct into the heart /lungs....crumple. Far easier are running kills than standing as the shoulder can absorb what behind the shoulder cannot. Foxes coming straight at the gun also due to their face shape can at times ski the pellets over their back. Note italics ffs.
Cheers folks, wife range of sentiments and ideas on range - will err to the side of caution in terms of ranges given though!
To quickly go on the safety, as said, I wouldn't even dream of it on any other estate than here. I shoot and load there (game and sim game) over 20 times a year (probably closer to 40 this year), and am probably one of a handful of people that the keeper personally will tell to shoot a fox if it safely presents - and as said, today was actually the first (live) fox I've ever seen on the estate. Frankly, knowing the drives as well, this is quite possibly the only drive I would ever actually consider shooting a fox on anyway, as all other drives are such that any fox would be both a distance away and too level with the woods being flushed. This drive is the only one where they get driven off a very steep banking that the heaters will not reach until about 40 mins into the drive, and it takes a good 20-30 mins for any birds to actually start flushing.
It certainly would not 5/10mins in as this fox was, and if so, I would have had at least a few minutes of hearing through my electronics the beaters and keeper screaming at the dog for buggering up the drive (not to mention that birds would have already appeared as well, very prematurely into the drive).
So, whilst I appreciate the opinions and experiences on here about the safety aspect, I really was just wanting to know about safe distances - I like to think that much like everyone here knows the ground that they regularly shoot/beat/load on, so do I.
To quickly go on the safety, as said, I wouldn't even dream of it on any other estate than here. I shoot and load there (game and sim game) over 20 times a year (probably closer to 40 this year), and am probably one of a handful of people that the keeper personally will tell to shoot a fox if it safely presents - and as said, today was actually the first (live) fox I've ever seen on the estate. Frankly, knowing the drives as well, this is quite possibly the only drive I would ever actually consider shooting a fox on anyway, as all other drives are such that any fox would be both a distance away and too level with the woods being flushed. This drive is the only one where they get driven off a very steep banking that the heaters will not reach until about 40 mins into the drive, and it takes a good 20-30 mins for any birds to actually start flushing.
It certainly would not 5/10mins in as this fox was, and if so, I would have had at least a few minutes of hearing through my electronics the beaters and keeper screaming at the dog for buggering up the drive (not to mention that birds would have already appeared as well, very prematurely into the drive).
So, whilst I appreciate the opinions and experiences on here about the safety aspect, I really was just wanting to know about safe distances - I like to think that much like everyone here knows the ground that they regularly shoot/beat/load on, so do I.
I think you'll find the term "ground game" applies to anything on the ground! Certainly, on driven days, there was no place for shooting foxes when I was keepering, on many shoots it would have been a recipe for disaster! Over the years, I have been aware of two or three incidents where accidents involving beater's dogs have occurred due to people mistaking them for foxes in dense cover. On driven days, all shots should be taken "skyward", not on the ground.
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
These work well at extends shotgun range but I’d be nervous of ricochets , very accurate though…
All my years and I'm sure by your name you have been doing it longer than me but I have been beating and shooting for a long time now I have never seen a fox shot on a let day in dense cover, They have either been left because they are unsafe or shot because they're safe in the open, If someone makes the judgement to shoot what they believe is a fox in dense cover which turns out to be a dog they should have their licence removed as they are not only unsafe but incompetent and I'm amazed that people can even take that chance.
As to the OP I personally wouldn't go beyond 30yds with a shotgun
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Probably the biggest boar I ever shot with a .12G was with a Brenneke behind the ear at range.
30 yards would be the maximum for 30 grams of number 5 shot. However, it is much better to leave it for a rifle shot on another day. My shoot has a "no ground game" policy, which includes foxes. When I was younger I was disappointed with this rule. Now I am older, and have a dog, I thoroughly agree with it.
You misunderstand John - I mean on "driven game days " - NOT that driving foxes is wrong
Mixing the 2 on a shoot day here is a recipe for disaster
Since we have a long tradition of driven hunting with shotguns in this country, shooting distances on driven hunts using shotguns are included in the exam to get a hunting license.
When I got my hunting license in the 80s here in Denmark, it was allowed to use lead shot.
At that time, the maximum safe shooting distance for foxes was 30-35 meters, with shot number 3-5.
For roe deer, it was a maximum of 25 meters.
Lead shot was banned here in 1994, and safe shooting distances were then reduced to 25 meters for foxes and 20 meters for roe deer.
On a typical driven hunt here, we shoot all huntable game from snipe to roe deer with shotgun on same hunt, so most people use shot size 4 (3,25mm), a little large for a pigon or snipe but on the small size (but still effective) for roe deer.
When I got my hunting license in the 80s here in Denmark, it was allowed to use lead shot.
At that time, the maximum safe shooting distance for foxes was 30-35 meters, with shot number 3-5.
For roe deer, it was a maximum of 25 meters.
Lead shot was banned here in 1994, and safe shooting distances were then reduced to 25 meters for foxes and 20 meters for roe deer.
On a typical driven hunt here, we shoot all huntable game from snipe to roe deer with shotgun on same hunt, so most people use shot size 4 (3,25mm), a little large for a pigon or snipe but on the small size (but still effective) for roe deer.
Nickb
Well-Known Member
Too right I've seen them missed at 10 yds
100 pecent - until the day the antis turn up and are stood at the end of the drive - Seen it happen mate - Trust me Not worth it - not ever on a driven game day
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Ah yes my misunderstanding jall.
An Sionnach
Well-Known Member
For a long time I used to shoot foxes with our club pack of beagles and terriers
Every Sunday from September till 17th of March when we stopped for the summer,unless we were contacted by a farmer loosing lambs or fowl
The standard load was the faithful Alphamax BB,40 yards with a well choked gun was very doable
I used to load up first barrel with Winchester Western 32gm #4 and the Alphamax for the second barrel
Even the #4 was very effective past 30 yards…the BBs just had more authority if needed
Later years I swapped to 42gm #1 or #3
They filled up the pattern much better and gave more pellets on a fox at range than the BBs
You asked about maximum range…I’ve seen “lucky” pellets on the brain of a fox drop them at ranges that wouldn’t be believed…and I’ve seen foxes emerge from a cloud of dust and fur at self defence ranges and continue on their way
Every Sunday from September till 17th of March when we stopped for the summer,unless we were contacted by a farmer loosing lambs or fowl
The standard load was the faithful Alphamax BB,40 yards with a well choked gun was very doable
I used to load up first barrel with Winchester Western 32gm #4 and the Alphamax for the second barrel
Even the #4 was very effective past 30 yards…the BBs just had more authority if needed
Later years I swapped to 42gm #1 or #3
They filled up the pattern much better and gave more pellets on a fox at range than the BBs
You asked about maximum range…I’ve seen “lucky” pellets on the brain of a fox drop them at ranges that wouldn’t be believed…and I’ve seen foxes emerge from a cloud of dust and fur at self defence ranges and continue on their way
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
As an aside iirc I havent seen a choke side. I have always used nothing less than full choke. My Berretta auto five shot was full...crushed in the gun amnesty buy back.
My old Baikal (yes trailer axle barrel Baikal) single barrel has such a full choke that its a dinner plate on an opposite creek bank at 30 yards. It is a real fox killer and during the skin hunting days she shot $12,000 worth of fox skins. 400 @ ave $30 Mainly walked up at night with a motorbike battery light. **** me its a hammer and I have split the stock shooting Brennecke's out of her lol.
Blokes using half chokes etc are at a real disadvantage for driven foxes.
My old Baikal (yes trailer axle barrel Baikal) single barrel has such a full choke that its a dinner plate on an opposite creek bank at 30 yards. It is a real fox killer and during the skin hunting days she shot $12,000 worth of fox skins. 400 @ ave $30 Mainly walked up at night with a motorbike battery light. **** me its a hammer and I have split the stock shooting Brennecke's out of her lol.
Blokes using half chokes etc are at a real disadvantage for driven foxes.
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