This is the reason we need to be very careful about voting….but laying down and doing nothing will not help either.
Are we really this daft?!?
- Thread starter gixer1
- Start date
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
I’m a survivalist. I’ve dug my trench and preparing to repel borders, but I will not sign epoxy petition that means Jack shite, they don’t have to look at it. They don’t have to consult on it. They don’t have to do bugger all!
All it will take is another mass shooting god forbid with a person with legally hold shotgun or Firearms that will be the lot
Stevie/P
Well-Known Member
I can’t see it making much difference if shotguns moved to section 1 anyway those that are dedicated shot gun shooters will comply and just carry on with their sport why have two certificates when one would cover all firearms.
As for the argument on good reason join a clay pigeon club or a syndicate game shoot pest control on local farms might even encourage people to actually go out shooting.
As for the argument on good reason join a clay pigeon club or a syndicate game shoot pest control on local farms might even encourage people to actually go out shooting.
@Stevie/P really?
Ever taken a mate to the clay ground for them to try their hand? You won’t be able to do that if this happens, at least not outside of limited non-member days.
Seen a youngster try his hand with Dad’s gun on the syndicate? Not if he’s not got his own FAC.
Want to invite your clay shooting friends on a days walked up? Not until they send their licenses in to have a game shooting condition added and that’ll require a land clearance form or some other evidence.
Want a new gun? That’ll be a month waiting for your 141 or perhaps 3 for a full variation. And let’s not forget the fee.
The list goes on. This will make a difference, and not a good one.
Ever taken a mate to the clay ground for them to try their hand? You won’t be able to do that if this happens, at least not outside of limited non-member days.
Seen a youngster try his hand with Dad’s gun on the syndicate? Not if he’s not got his own FAC.
Want to invite your clay shooting friends on a days walked up? Not until they send their licenses in to have a game shooting condition added and that’ll require a land clearance form or some other evidence.
Want a new gun? That’ll be a month waiting for your 141 or perhaps 3 for a full variation. And let’s not forget the fee.
The list goes on. This will make a difference, and not a good one.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
If WW3 started, old gits like most of us on here would be a handy contribution for home defence of this Island. Unfortunately, governments can't see that.Already done mine,
Nothing like being ready and able ... even at my stage in life.
I doubt I'd last long if I were drafted to the front line, so to speak.
Sadly Cav, I fear you are right. Ive said for a long time private firearms ownership in the UK will end in my lifetime. I just dont expect it to be quite this soon. A VERY real prospect
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
15 years max if not sooner
And a very slow death if it takes that long
Stevie/P
Well-Known Member
All due respect @andyk it’s all just speculation on what if any restrictions will be placed on shotguns or there use just because shotguns move to section 1 it doesn’t necessarily mean the same controls as for centre fire and rim fire rifles will apply the fact of the matter is shotguns will move to s1 of that I’m sure all we can do is hope that access to shotguns and there use remains as is.
@Stevie/P I’d accept I’m speculating with regard to conditions, as they don’t have to be added or be as restrictive as they usually are.
I’m not speculating on the other points. A s1 can’t be lent at a club other than to another member or license holder aside from on open days (which I believe are limited to 12 per year), the Estate Rifle exemption can’t be used by children and the variation system is obligatory for anything on s1. These things will happen if s2 is done away with.
The point I’ve tried to make on some of these threads (I lose track of which) is that the Govt says it wants to consider ‘greater alignment’ and hasn’t actually said the abolition of s2.
Undoubtedly there’ll be those who want that, and it will be the easy option for any politician considering this.
That’s why I’m so in favour of people pushing back on this and perhaps gets a bit prickly with those who seem to want to shrug their shoulders and say it won’t matter.
While I understand the cynicism, and certainly doubt the Govt will be persuaded to do nothing, I do think there’s a chance to convince the Govt to achieve ‘greater alignment’ by some other means.
While I don’t advocate it, the current test for a SGC allows rejection if the Police can show the applicant doesn’t have good reason. An amendment that says the applicant should show good reason for the certificate would keep s2 intact in other regards, so avoiding the issues highlighted with youngsters, new comers etc while allowing the Govt to say it’s achieved its stated intention.
Thats why I think people should push back, even if it doesn’t cause this to be dropped, getting it watered down would still be a victory.
I’m not speculating on the other points. A s1 can’t be lent at a club other than to another member or license holder aside from on open days (which I believe are limited to 12 per year), the Estate Rifle exemption can’t be used by children and the variation system is obligatory for anything on s1. These things will happen if s2 is done away with.
The point I’ve tried to make on some of these threads (I lose track of which) is that the Govt says it wants to consider ‘greater alignment’ and hasn’t actually said the abolition of s2.
Undoubtedly there’ll be those who want that, and it will be the easy option for any politician considering this.
That’s why I’m so in favour of people pushing back on this and perhaps gets a bit prickly with those who seem to want to shrug their shoulders and say it won’t matter.
While I understand the cynicism, and certainly doubt the Govt will be persuaded to do nothing, I do think there’s a chance to convince the Govt to achieve ‘greater alignment’ by some other means.
While I don’t advocate it, the current test for a SGC allows rejection if the Police can show the applicant doesn’t have good reason. An amendment that says the applicant should show good reason for the certificate would keep s2 intact in other regards, so avoiding the issues highlighted with youngsters, new comers etc while allowing the Govt to say it’s achieved its stated intention.
Thats why I think people should push back, even if it doesn’t cause this to be dropped, getting it watered down would still be a victory.
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
limits on holding cartridges, plus secure storage, no 72 hour rule, will estates be able to buy carts for forgein guests? cant be good news for smaller gun shops
Ok so I know it dosnt effect me being in Northern Ireland. As some of you will be aware we have a system where everything, airrifle pistols shotguns and rifles are all on the one type of certificate. I don’t really see what is to be feared? Pretty much everyone I know fills in the section “reason for possession” with the reply “sporting purposes and vermin control. Clays ducks pheasants and rough shooting are termed under sporting purposes. Foxes crows magpies etc are classed as vermin for this purpose. We can go to a firearms dealer.. hand him our shotgun and use the one on one off exchange and walk out the door with a new one the same day. I can take a mate shooting etc. perhaps rather than the doom around everyone’s fate and fighting a battle that can’t be won then maybe the big organisations could push for something they can have a say in and make sure youse get the right conditions with the legislation. The devil is always in the details and I suspect that lots of the doomsday brigade don’t yet know the detail because nothing has been finalised….
You touch on a few of the important details there, you don’t have to do a 141 (as we do) and by the sounds of things, also have more liberal rules on lending (I assume with supervision).
The concern here (at least to me) is that the Govt does the easy thing, which is ditch s2 and simply use the existing s1 framework for shotguns, without any additional reform of surrounding laws. That would cause real difficulties in a lot of ways that I don’t think some shooters realise.
That’s why I think it’s important people speak up. While it may not (probably won’t) see this abandoned, it may be enough to make the Home Office ‘throw us a bone’ perhaps in the way I’ve indicated above, the way you suggest or something else.
Abject apathy (which seems a bit too prevalent) leaves a vacuum to be filled by antis and makes the lazy option all the more appealing to the Home Office.
Agree in many ways . Never have been one to surrender but I think the thrust of the campaign should be to fight for the terms/conditions that will suit best. Good luck with whatever lies ahead. IF the changes come then I hope youse get the conditions that give some ease.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
5 years ago I said 20
If tensions continue to grow between Russia and Europe I could see getting ammo and reloading supplies… powder and primers being a bigger problem… sooner.
And you think the police will be happy with 20/30 guns / beaters registered on a piece of land ? I have been asked to keep an eye on numbers of circa 8 FACs on our land
Thankfully we dont have to read your rubbish all the time either
I really hope you are wrong Lee....but appreciate we are a vast minority. Im still of the opinion that if we dont fight we hasten the demise but appreciate your views as well mate.
Pete1774
Well-Known Member
Disregarding opinions of whether its a good or bad idea to merge SGCs and FACs the logistics of doing it are insane. There are currently around 150,000 FAC holders in the UK and many police forces have difficulty just dealing with renewals and variations from those within a reasonable time. Just imagine the chaos of adding another 500,000 to that workload without providing huge extra resources to every police force. Sure there would be some slack from not issuing SGCs but they are effectively just a licence to possess shotguns unlike the FAC which has to list the details of every gun and every ammo transaction and a variation is required to buy & sell each gun. Want your kids to be able to shoot? Apply at birth.
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