Shooting tax in scotland

[Reloader708]

Anyone who takes on ground in scotland, you're about to loose the ability to reclaim the shooting land tax under small business rates relief.
Currently up to about 12k, which is potentially a big hit on top of the lease you're already paying.
Its not just on stalking but I guess thats the most relevant topic here.

Pushed through to please the scotland (communist) greens, I believe there is a work around but it depends on the wording describing the land use, rewilding charities are clear of it.
Weirdly even if no shooting takes place on your land holding you're still eligible because you could undertake shooting activities??? Mad!
Its like paying tax on income you could potentially make.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Anyone who takes on ground in scotland, you're about to loose the ability to reclaim the shooting land tax under small business rates relief.
Currently up to about 12k, which is potentially a big hit on top of the lease you're already paying.
Its not just on stalking but I guess thats the most relevant topic here.

Pushed through to please the scotland (communist) greens, I believe there is a work around but it depends on the wording describing the land use, rewilding charities are clear of it.
Weirdly even if no shooting takes place on your land holding you're still eligible because you could undertake shooting activities??? Mad!
Its like paying tax on income you could potentially make.

and yet some shooting folk still vote snp, deserve all they get

 

[Camdig]

Anyone who takes on ground in scotland, you're about to loose the ability to reclaim the shooting land tax under small business rates relief.
Currently up to about 12k, which is potentially a big hit on top of the lease you're already paying.
Its not just on stalking but I guess thats the most relevant topic here.

Pushed through to please the scotland (communist) greens, I believe there is a work around but it depends on the wording describing the land use, rewilding charities are clear of it.
Weirdly even if no shooting takes place on your land holding you're still eligible because you could undertake shooting activities??? Mad!
Its like paying tax on income you could potentially make.

When this came round the first time a few years ago i know of a few landowners that simply just ignored it, nowt happened.

 

[slider]

When this came round the first time a few years ago i know of a few landowners that simply just ignored it, nowt happened.

All landowners got a sporting rates assessment and bill, some passed that on to their sporting tenants.
The vasy majority of these landowners or tenants qualified for 100% rates relief under the Small Business Bonus Scheme.
As a result it is costing more to administer Sporting Rates than the Scheme is generating.
That, and anti sporting politicians, is why they are now proposing to remove the ability to claim rate relief.
This is a serious issue and landowners/tenants won't simply be able to ignore it.

 

[Camdig]

All landowners got a sporting rates assessment and bill, some passed that on to their sporting tenants.
The vasy majority of these landowners or tenants qualified for 100% rates relief under the Small Business Bonus Scheme.
As a result it is costing more to administer Sporting Rates than the Scheme is generating.
That, and anti sporting politicians, is why they are now proposing to remove the ability to claim rate relief.
This is a serious issue and landowners/tenants won't simply be able to ignore it.

Just squeezing the workers more and more, I could of employed two more workers with tax money i have handed over this year.
If I remember correctly the first round of this was left to landowners to declare the ratable area or pass on info of sporting lease activities this is the part I knew landowners ignored.
It will all end in pain and misery once there's no more tax to give.

 

[HonestJohn]

Does not apply if for deer management only I believe.

Have several bits of ground where this could mean the end where there is more than just deer management, unless the landowner accepts all sporting rate liabilities

An example. - 1000 acres mixed sporting, say £1.5k rent. With rates passed to tenant, ups rent to £2.5, lease is given up.

Other - 2,500 acres deer and mixed game, free shooting from farmer. If he passes the rates on to me at £2/acre, that’s £2,500 Pa. - free shooting now, but I’ll give up the land

Other - 1000 acres stalking, free. If rates are passed on and considered ground has more to offer than just deer, that’s £1,000 possibly, ground is given up

Other - 1,500 acres for deer, with rates if they apply, could be up to £3k Pa.

Other - 10,000 acres for deer. If rated at £1/acre, that’s £10k Pa

So ‘if’, deer only ground is rated, an the landowners chose not to absorb the rates but pass them on, my lease fees would go up BY up to £16k per annum

…and, this would see the end of my time stalking and shooting quite frankly. Simply not worth it.

But, I hope there are loopholes or sanity prevails

 

[HonestJohn]

Just squeezing the workers more and more, I could of employed two more workers with tax money i have handed over this year.
If I remember correctly the first round of this was left to landowners to declare the ratable area or pass on info of sporting lease activities this is the part I knew landowners ignored.
It will all end in pain and misery once there's no more tax to give.

Yes, now it’s put into the hands of money hungry local councils to manage and asses,, and when you look at how desperate they are, you can be 100% sure all land is rated at the full tilt

 

[slider]

Just squeezing the workers more and more, I could of employed two more workers with tax money i have handed over this year.
If I remember correctly the first round of this was left to landowners to declare the ratable area or pass on info of sporting lease activities this is the part I knew landowners ignored.
It will all end in pain and misery once there's no more tax to give.

Agree its a pain in the rear.
However rateable value is determined bt the Assessors Office and if based on a set about per hectare over which sporting activities MAY take place. According the occupier is liable for the rate whether any shooting activities take place or not..

 

[slider]

Does not apply if for deer management only I

That is the key part.

Will a forestry (or other) lease be classed as deer management only if tenants are paying for the privilege of shooting?

Personally while I do pay as part of s deer shooting syndicate I think there is something very back to front where I am paying to undertake crop production for the benifit of the forest owner.
Maybe, just maybe a loophole for the forestry company would be to issue sporting licenses to the deer controller at no cost.

Wishful thinking maybe but we can always hope!

 

[HonestJohn]

Yep, issue is of course, you tell a Scottish farmer you can no longer pay for the stalking, but are willing to do it free, you’ll better be good at running fast out his farmhouse door or, you keep paying and he absorbs all rates applied, in writing

 

[Camdig]

That is the key part.

Will a forestry (or other) lease be classed as deer management only if tenants are paying for the privilege of shooting?

Personally while I do pay as part of s deer shooting syndicate I think there is something very back to front where I am paying to undertake crop production for the benifit of the forest owner.
Maybe, just maybe a loophole for the forestry company would be to issue sporting licenses to the deer controller at no cost.

Wishful thinking maybe but we can always hope!

Funny you say that, ive been asked to take on leases for deer management on two areas for no fee just the sign the paperwork same landowner on both pieces of land.
I might pick your brains about this in the near future

 

[slider]

Yes, now it’s put into the hands of money hungry local councils to manage and asses,, and when you look at how desperate they are, you can be 100% sure all land is rated at the full tilt

Sporting rates are already assessed at a set amount per hectare, based on the land type.
A "poundage" multiplier is then used to determine the actual rates bill.
This bill is issue whether there is any Sporting activity or not.
Currently the occupied can then apply for uo to 100% rates relief under the Small Business Bonus Scheme
.it is that ability to claim relief that is proposed to be removed.

 

[Heym SR20]

SNP is trying to recover the costs of all the contractors on FLS ground. FLS is receiving in year to March 2025 received government grants of £25m. Details in their annual report

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/media/urhh3if5/fls-ara-fy-24-25-dec-2025.pdf

Income from Forestry operations is about £100m of which venison sales are £1.5m with 95% of sales going to one customer on a 5 year contract. Cull target is about 40,000 deer in the year. No details exactly what is spent on deer management is shown in the accounts.

However public bodies have to publish payments of over £25,000 to 3 rd party contractors. So in their Corporate Expenditures Reports

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/media/5sdi1kyw/25k-invoices-2024-2025.xlsx

You will see outlined each month a whole series of payments of £25k. You will see a good number for “Deer Management Control” and in the year to March 2025 these amount to £4.8m. Bear in mind that this only shows payments of over £25k, there is no reporting of how much has been spent invoices in smaller amounts.

There is also a requirement to publish details tenders that have been awarded and completed

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/media/4tvp4p2i/fls-annual-procurement-report-2024-2025-1.pdf

Appendix 2 makes interesting reading, especially

£343,720 to provide consulting on - “How can we help Wildlife Rangers identify the exact location of every animal larger than 5 kilograms in a specified area in real time, in order to improve forest management and ecological restoration?”

So you wonder where your tax money goes?

 

[slider]

SNP is trying to recover the costs of all the contractors on FLS ground. FLS is receiving in year to March 2025 received government grants of £25m. Details in their annual report

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/media/urhh3if5/fls-ara-fy-24-25-dec-2025.pdf

Income from Forestry operations is about £100m of which venison sales are £1.5m with 95% of sales going to one customer on a 5 year contract. Cull target is about 40,000 deer in the year. No details exactly what is spent on deer management is shown in the accounts.

However public bodies have to publish payments of over £25,000 to 3 rd party contractors. So in their Corporate Expenditures Reports

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/media/5sdi1kyw/25k-invoices-2024-2025.xlsx

You will see outlined each month a whole series of payments of £25k. You will see a good number for “Deer Management Control” and in the year to March 2025 these amount to £4.8m. Bear in mind that this only shows payments of over £25k, there is no reporting of how much has been spent invoices in smaller amounts.

There is also a requirement to publish details tenders that have been awarded and completed

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/media/4tvp4p2i/fls-annual-procurement-report-2024-2025-1.pdf

Appendix 2 makes interesting reading, especially

£343,720 to provide consulting on - “How can we help Wildlife Rangers identify the exact location of every animal larger than 5 kilograms in a specified area in real time, in order to improve forest management and ecological restoration?”

So you wonder where your tax money goes?

How will this help?

Since the original reintroduction of Sporting Rates in 2013 (ish) FLS has been trying to fight a rates bill of more than £1m per year.
One arm of Govt trying to bill another. Madness.

The grant that FLS get from Scot Govt is to compensate for the additional public good they undertake the private forestry dont - access provisions ( including mountain bike trails), plant more hardwood (think its now circa 50%), reinstatement of former open cast coal mines for woodland creation, higher environmental standards. Etc etc

 

[rab19]

So I try to think I am not too thick....Have just taken on a couple of hundred acres of mixed arable, horse paddock and small woodland for rabbit and deer "Pest Control" and there has never been any other types of sporting shooting done e.g pheasant and no intention in the future.

This is for free, the farmer (owner not a tenant) wants the rabbits and deer gone so no clients, money changing hands etc.

So is there a potential situation in the near future where he will tip up and say "sorry mate I am going to have to charge you £££ to shoot the free roaming wild deer on my land as the Scottish govt has now classed this as a sporting activity and not pest control....
Thanks
Trying to get educated

 

[HonestJohn]

So I try to think I am not too thick....Have just taken on a couple of hundred acres of mixed arable, horse paddock and small woodland for rabbit and deer "Pest Control" and there has never been any other types of sporting shooting done e.g pheasant and no intention in the future.

This is for free, the farmer (owner not a tenant) wants the rabbits and deer gone so no clients, money changing hands etc.

So is there a potential situation in the near future where he will tip up and say "sorry mate I am going to have to charge you £££ to shoot the free roaming wild deer on my land as the Scottish govt has now classed this as a sporting activity and not pest control....
Thanks
Trying to get educated

Yes. If they assess his land as having sporting opportunity, he might throw it onto you indeed. In fact, if he tells them you are the tenant, the bill might just come through your door with your name on it.

I’ll be seeking to have something in writing for each bit of land i shoot.

 

[HonestJohn]

It’s indeed interesting to see if you pay a lease / rent for deer, if the landowner will be able to pass it on as deer control for environmental purposes, or whether he’s going to have to give you the rights for free, in exchange for cash that doesn’t go into his bank account.

 

[slider]

It’s indeed interesting to see if you pay a lease / rent for deer, if the landowner will be able to pass it on as deer control for environmental purposes, or whether he’s going to have to give you the rights for free, in exchange for cash that doesn’t go into his bank account.

try working that with Tilhill, Scottish Woodlands etc....

 

[muddy42]

just to be clear, Scottish sporting rates are assessed on shooting rights and deer forests, based on their hypothetical rental value. Technically it doesn't matter what what is actually happening on the land, there could be no shooting or stalking or a lease for payment of £1m a year, it makes no difference. However induvial assessments were too complicated so they assessed everything at £5 per hectare. That said due to the complexity of scottish landownership, many people never received a bill. There was a small business relief which covered most small bits of land. The SNP now plan to change this relief to where deer management, environmental management or vermin control are undertaken ‘solely’. This is a blatant attempt to save FLS and various other crooked semi-public landowners a massive rates bill. I have no idea how this relief will work in practice, because it goes against the hypothetical rental value above. remove old pheasant pens? have an unofficial agreement, pay in cash?

 

[HonestJohn]

try working that with Tilhill, Scottish Woodlands etc....

But they already don’t qualify for the small business relief due to their size, so what changes for them?