Lead ban date announced

[Norfolk Deer Search]

As a question, what are the issues with copper and other monolithic bullets?

I am currently using lead, but will move to copper when the time comes. There are a fair few studies out there and reviews by people such as Tim Pilbeam, Paul Childerley etc who aren't small names in rifle shooting, and they are happy with the lethality and stopping power of copper and other loads with some good testing on all deer and large game species. I know several keepers who use copper for everything, and seem to get very good results with ballistically and with stopping power.

Just interested to hear peoples views on the move over as after the info online I would be happy to use copper in all my rifles, and can't quite understand the backlash that copper seems to get!

EDIT: I know there a few on here who are quite vocal about the effectiveness of copper, I'm not looking to start a shouting match, just after genuine reasons why it isn't suitable

Sandy

Been shooting copper 15 years ish, it works I will assure you.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I will also say that when it comes to those famous YouTube shooters who claimed this and all that I take no bloody notice just social media crap, the only way you’re gonna learn about copper is by shooting it and using it that
Is exactly the way I did, there was none of their shoot light and fast and all the recommended bullet speeds and weights and all that Horlicks I just picked a bullet I wanted to use and made it work and went and killed stuff!

I’m talk about the days of buying Barnes bullets before they were readily available in the UK used to buy them from cliffs gunsmithing in Utah on a two week Order!

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

But for the record, I’m presently using lead in protest, I’m not happy at all about being told what I can and cannot do.

 

[WW.]

Probably worth watching what happens with REACH in Europe too. They seem to have a latest proposal which focuses on banning shot but allows lead bullets. If SKS/the civil service is keen on matching the EU then we may end up with something similar. I think there's a case to be made. That being said, copper is obviously a functional round too based on the number on here using it successfully.

 

[ashray]

so i still dont know if i will be using lead legally in my .243 rifle. can any one show me where its written that a .243 must use monolithic bullets ?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Had these turn up last week from a friend who sadly passed away, their stashed in the emergency pile

 

[viking90]

As a question, what are the issues with copper and other monolithic bullets?

I am currently using lead, but will move to copper when the time comes. There are a fair few studies out there and reviews by people such as Tim Pilbeam, Paul Childerley etc who aren't small names in rifle shooting, and they are happy with the lethality and stopping power of copper and other loads with some good testing on all deer and large game species. I know several keepers who use copper for everything, and seem to get very good results with ballistically and with stopping power.

Just interested to hear peoples views on the move over as after the info online I would be happy to use copper in all my rifles, and can't quite understand the backlash that copper seems to get!

EDIT: I know there a few on here who are quite vocal about the effectiveness of copper, I'm not looking to start a shouting match, just after genuine reasons why it isn't suitable

Sandy

Its the cost. most people shooting deer wont notice a difference but then they likely dont shoot many rounds over land per month. My personal projectile cost will likely triple or quadruple at the current cost of copper projectiles so I'll have to reduce the amount I shoot. Some would just give up all together. There's nothing wrong with copper but they're taking away our choice

 

[finnbear270]

I successfully used the older Barnes copper .277 without the relief grooves on Boar, No issues.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Note the abject failure of BASC in regard to .243 Winchester. The authoritave voice of shooting?

23. Paragraph 12(b) does not apply to other projectiles which are—

(a)a calibre of less than 6.17 millimetres and used in, or placed on the market for use in, live quarry shooting, including related zeroing;

(b)used in, or placed on the market for use in, indoor target shooting; or

(c)placed on the market for use at an outdoor shooting range.

Yet being spun by BASC as somehow a success. Please, Alice, pass the sick bag:

BASC’s deputy director of shooting operations, Terry Behan, said: “In 2020, BASC and other shooting organisations took the initiative by announcing a voluntary five-year transition away from lead shot and single-use plastics for live quarry shooting, knowing that regulatory change was likely. Our priority was to uphold the shooting community’s long-standing commitment to high environmental standards while protecting the future of shooting in the UK.

“We’re pleased to see that the exemptions BASC successfully argued and lobbied for – including for small calibre rifles, airguns, shooting on ranges that meet mitigation requirements, and elite athletes – have been included in the Government’s plans, reflecting the practical realities of pest control, target shooting and competitive shooting.

“We are disappointed that the Government has not listened to the advice of the shooting sector on the inclusion of .243 within the definition of larger calibres.

Maybe it's time for BASC to just pack up and fade away. All puff and promise like ten year certificates. But never mind still good deals to be had on red wine in the quarterly magazine. Should come with a punched hole on the top left corner and ready perforated to make its use easier in the outhouse.

The landscape will be rusty brown in colour. The deer tracking + recovery will be busier than ever. There will be less shooters than ever. The likes of NRL will only allow the 'rich' to compete. The forestry companies will start kicking off when tree's are dieing.

Gonna be a fun few years BASC have achieved what they set out to do and have stuck another nail in the coffin.

As someone who HAS used lead free in both rifle and shotgun, it isn't anywhere near as effective. I've run a few slabs through the shotgun of steel and they just don't kill well unless you're shooting at 15 yards. With rifles you really need to give consideration to bullet choice for your desired range. Pick the wrong bullet, you've got very mobile deer running a hell of a long way. Yeh the same could be said for lead but practically all lead expanding bullets will work over 200 yards without any thought

Big round of applause to BASC, the obvious saviours of the shooting community. W️

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

The landscape will be rusty brown in colour. The deer tracking + recovery will be busier than ever. There will be less shooters than ever. The likes of NRL will only allow the 'rich' to compete. The forestry companies will start kicking off when tree's are dieing.

Gonna be a fun few years BASC have achieved what they set out to do and have stuck another nail in the coffin.

As someone who HAS used lead free in both rifle and shotgun, it isn't anywhere near as effective. I've run a few slabs through the shotgun of steel and they just don't kill well unless you're shooting at 15 yards. With rifles you really need to give consideration to bullet choice for your desired range. Pick the wrong bullet, you've got very mobile deer running a hell of a long way. Yeh the same could be said for lead but practically all lead expanding bullets will work over 200 yards without any thought

Big round of applause to BASC, the obvious saviours of the shooting community. W️

In the 15 years, I’ve shot copper which was and continues to this day to be barnes ttsx I’ve lost three animals out of several thousand, from the humble muntjac all the way up to the biggest red stag, front and bullet bang I don’t even think about it.

The biggest problem with copper is people thinking they need to go lightweight and drive them fast in my personal opinion that only equals pencilling through and that intern equals a lost animal, personally I go big or go home and don’t bother!

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Its the cost. most people shooting deer wont notice a difference but then they likely dont shoot many rounds over land per month. My personal projectile cost will likely triple or quadruple at the current cost of copper projectiles so I'll have to reduce the amount I shoot. Some would just give up all together. There's nothing wrong with copper but they're taking away our choice

Its not even the cost for shooting deer, its the zeroing, dope checking and ringing gongs at range. I'll happily do 40 rounds in a session checking data and shooting gongs out yonder. Thats suddenly become an expensive hobby in its own right. Are people gonna be using lead free to shoot fox's and other vermin with their 243? Nope. A fox ain't worth a few quid a time, neither is a crow or anything else. 22 creed or 22ARC which shoots the same 80-90g bullet as a 243 is still ok though?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Its not even the cost for shooting deer, its the zeroing, dope checking and ringing gongs at range. I'll happily do 40 rounds in a session checking data and shooting gongs out yonder. Thats suddenly become an expensive hobby in its own right. Are people gonna be using lead free to shoot fox's and other vermin with their 243? Nope. A fox ain't worth a few quid a time, neither is a crow or anything else. 22 creed or 22ARC which shoots the same 80-90g bullet as a 243 is still ok though?

Why on earth do you want to waste ammunition on punching paper and gongs?

Go Bloody stalking!

Once you’ve got your load and done your development get on with it, 40 bullets equals 38 dead deer 2 to check zero end of!

 

[hendrix's rifle]

In the 15 years, I’ve shot copper which was and continues to this day to be barnes ttsx I’ve lost three animals out of several thousand, from the humble man Jack all the way up to the biggest red stack, front and bullet bang I don’t even think about it.

The biggest problem with copper is people thinking they need to go lightweight and drive them fast in my personal opinion that only equals pencilling through and that intern equals a lost animal, personally I go big or go home and don’t bother!

My transfer for a 7mm has already gone in. I've used lead free bullets that just don't work. The old hornady ntx were absolutely awful things. Some of the more modern copper bullets will work to 200 but then performance drops off drastically. As in pencilling through with no expansion.

I just don't particularly like copper bullets but I don't only shoot deer. Its always a trade off with them. Performance at long range but write the carcass off close range. No happy medium. And obviously the fact now copper prices are on the up, ammo prices won't be far behind. The few lead free bullet manufacturers will up the prices even more than they already are. Won't be long before we see lead free factory ammo way above £100 a box

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Why on earth do you want to waste ammunition on punching paper and gongs?

Go Bloody stalking!

Once you’ve got your load and done your development get on with it, 40 bullets equals 38 dead deer 2 to check zero end of!

Because i enjoy it as much as I enjoy shooting deer not so much the paper but the gongs make a satisfying noise

 

[andyk]

so i still dont know if i will be using lead legally in my .243 rifle. can any one show me where its written that a .243 must use monolithic bullets ?

On the earlier link to the new amendments to the REACH regulation the new paragraph 11 says lead projectiles of more than 3% lead are banned for range use and 12.b says that any projectile that is not shot and has more than 3% lead in it is banned for any other use. Both are subject to exemptions.

The main exemptions are use on a range, when it has provision for lead recovery (paragraph 13) and lead bullets of a calibre less than 6.17mm (paragraph 23.a).

While .243 bullets are commonly called 6mm, that’s just a rounding. If you measure them they’re .243” which, as others have said, is 6.1722mm.

So, lead is banned for anything .243 or above unless on a range - what’s printed on boxes doesn’t matter.

 

[viking90]

Its not even the cost for shooting deer, its the zeroing, dope checking and ringing gongs at range. I'll happily do 40 rounds in a session checking data and shooting gongs out yonder. Thats suddenly become an expensive hobby in its own right. Are people gonna be using lead free to shoot fox's and other vermin with their 243? Nope. A fox ain't worth a few quid a time, neither is a crow or anything else. 22 creed or 22ARC which shoots the same 80-90g bullet as a 243 is still ok though?

Absolutely! I'll have exactly the same problem as you. I enjoy sticking steel plates out at distance and getting positional practice in. Tripod, fence posts etc its very easy to burn 50+ rounds a day training

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

My transfer for a 7mm has already gone in. I've used lead free bullets that just don't work. The old hornady ntx were absolutely awful things. Some of the more modern copper bullets will work to 200 but then performance drops off drastically. As in pencilling through with no expansion.

I just don't particularly like copper bullets but I don't only shoot deer. It’s always a trade off with them. Performance at long range but write the carcass off close range. No happy medium. And obviously the fact now copper prices are on the up, ammo prices won't be far behind. The few lead free bullet manufacturers will up the prices even more than they already are. Won't be long before we see lead free factory ammo way above £100 a box

7x57 any chance?

I’ll happily share load data, I’ve done a fair bit of playing with the 7x57

 

[Cyres]

Deafening silence from BASC on this thread!
I wonder why?
D

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Deafening silence from BASC on this thread!
I wonder why?
D

Probably because none of us are members

 

[martyn52]

I’ve been shooting copper in my .243 for 2 years no problem at all.