Rules for FAC air rifles.

[billy_boyle_2010]

FAC runs at around 850-925 fps for Diablo pellets, after that they become unstable.

Let me put it another way a pellet of the same mass will decelerate more hitting a solid object if it is travelling at a higher velocity. That deceleration is the energy transfer as that kinetic energy has only gone into the animal, nowhere else.

I’ve recovered plenty of pellets that have expanded well, the bigger the bone the better expansion.

I get the feeling you have zero experience with FAC air or what it is capable of, so you are working on assumptions based on what you have seen with your own sub 12.

I’ve shot thousands of rats and rabbits with both sub 12 and FAC air rifle. The FAC is a better tool for the job every day of the week provided there’s nothing behind that can get damaged.

Absolutely I haven't used FAC air- pretty sure i said that above

I also totally agree that FAC is the better tool. But how much better does it need to be for rats ? Other than the texas shot- or v large long chicken sheds- I'm not sure. If I did tonnes of ratting I prob would though!

Interesting point re the deceleration- it would be interesting if someone had calculated it but I shall take your word for it

 

[oldhamstocks]

Long had an urge to get an HW80 on ticket - .22 or .25. Springer simplicity and a nice flat trajectory with a big thump out to 40-50 yards max.

 

[25 Sharps]

Absolutely I haven't used FAC air- pretty sure i said that above

I also totally agree that FAC is the better tool. But how much better does it need to be for rats ? Other than the texas shot- or v large long chicken sheds- I'm not sure. If I did tonnes of ratting I prob would though!

Interesting point re the deceleration- it would be interesting if someone had calculated it but I shall take your word for it

You did, but the comment on the speeds was really what I was getting at, FAC is a real step up. I go ratting with a couple of colleagues, both use sub 12s, the difference in terminal effects is very, very obvious. The 30is ft-lb vs the 12 means you are not waiting for that perfect presentation of a very small kill area. As I said way back, you aim pretty much where you want as long as the vitals are behind which ever part of the body you’re aiming at, the pellet will get through and the rat will be dead. It means you’re a lot quicker on targets, not waiting for them to stand in a shootable position etc.

The deceleration would be an interesting thing to measure, but aside from putting a chrono the other side of some dead rat carcasses and shooting them, can’t see how you’d measure it- the terminal effect however, speaks for itself.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

@25 Sharps

Yup agreed and interesting. A 30 ft lb ratter in 22 or 25 would be nice to try!

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Long had an urge to get an HW80 on ticket - .22 or .25. Springer simplicity and a nice flat trajectory with a big thump out to 40-50 yards max.

Would a .25 springer get you more range though ? I couldn't shoot a springer accurately enough to benefit from the extra power personally. Although by all accounts they shoot better at fac power levels.

 

[Confidis]

Slugs kill harder. This was 70 yard @45lb side chest shot
Just failed to exit.
The thump and flop is noticeabley different compared to 22lr hp subs . This shot with the 22lr would probably have resulted in a pass through and a runner.
rats just get wrecked with centre mass/ chest shots . Even at 30lb the slugs soft point expansion is deadly. No comparison to pellets .
Basically the difference between varmint rounds and FMJ .

 

[25 Sharps]

Slugs kill harder. This was 70 yard @45lb side chest shot
Just failed to exit.
The thump and flop is noticeabley different compared to 22lr hp subs . This shot with the 22lr would probably have resulted in a pass through and a runner.
rats just get wrecked with centre mass/ chest shots . Even at 30lb the slugs soft point expansion is deadly. No comparison to pellets .
Basically the difference between varmint rounds and FMJ .View attachment 483483

That's impressive expansion.

Tried some slugs in my S10 a couple of weeks ago, the accuracy just isn't there in my rifle so I'll stick with the JSB heavies.

 

[old keeper]

I've switched over to slugs in both my .25 FAC FX rifles. I've found them both accurate and much harder-hitting than pellets of the same weight. I'm using an Alpex Lite, which makes all the difference.

 

[12gsnapcaps]

FAC air rifles, whether 13ft/b, 50ft/b or 500ft/b, are the exact same in every shape and form as those for 22LR or .308 etc. The law only distinguishes below 12ft/b and above 12ft/b
I would never advise shooting into a tree with anything above 12/ftb unless you know your ground and or backstop more intimately than you do your wife.
FAC air rifles have much less chance of richochet than a .22LR, but never zero risk. If you're using slugs, the risk is about the same. If in doubt, do not take the shot. there will always be another rat, but you cant unshoot a shot taken.

 

[25 Sharps]

FAC air rifles, whether 13ft/b, 50ft/b or 500ft/b, are the exact same in every shape and form as those for 22LR or .308 etc. The law only distinguishes below 12ft/b and above 12ft/b
I would never advise shooting into a tree with anything above 12/ftb unless you know your ground and or backstop more intimately than you do your wife.
FAC air rifles have much less chance of richochet than a .22LR, but never zero risk. If you're using slugs, the risk is about the same. If in doubt, do not take the shot. there will always be another rat, but you cant unshoot a shot taken.

First chart is an 18.1 gr pellet at 890 fps, within 400 yards it is down to 1 ft-lb

Second chart is a .22 LR subsonic, it doesn’t reach 1 ft-lb at 2000 yards.

Also, look at the difference in drop, the pellet drops 10x faster.

They are not the same, unless you stick a slug in the air rifle, then they become close.

 

[25 Sharps]

FAC air rifles, whether 13ft/b, 50ft/b or 500ft/b, are the exact same in every shape and form as those for 22LR or .308 etc. The law only distinguishes below 12ft/b and above 12ft/b
I would never advise shooting into a tree with anything above 12/ftb unless you know your ground and or backstop more intimately than you do your wife.
FAC air rifles have much less chance of richochet than a .22LR, but never zero risk. If you're using slugs, the risk is about the same. If in doubt, do not take the shot. there will always be another rat, but you cant unshoot a shot taken.

Just for comparison, as you’re comfortable ahooting a sub 12 ft-lb into a tree, here’s a 15.9 gr air arms.

 

[12gsnapcaps]

My comment of similarity was regarding real world richochet risk, not mathematical retained energy.

You seem to be agreeing with me on not shooting into trees with anything over 12ft/b.

I'm struggling to understand what message/meaning you're trying to relay here? Other than essentially agreeing with me.

 

[25 Sharps]

My comment of similarity was regarding real world richochet risk, not mathematical retained energy.

You seem to be agreeing with me on not shooting into trees with anything over 12ft/b.

I'm struggling to understand what message/meaning you're trying to relay here? Other than essentially agreeing with me.

I misunderstood in that case, that you were saying it was as dangerous to shoot an FAC air rifle into the air as it was a .22, or .308 and that the only safe thing is a sub 12, but that’s how it comes across.

What I was pointing out was that in reality, if you can see 400 yards behind the target then a 30ish ft-lb .22 air rifle is as safe as a sub 12 where you can see 150-200 yards behind the target.

The same applies for ricochet, the air rifle is slowing and dropping far, far faster than a .22 or .223 or .308. It is starting with less energy, carrying that energy a shorter distance and coming to rest far sooner. This makes it inherently more safe. Consideration still needs to be given to back stop or back box, but the danger area is far, far smaller. But if you look at the drop figures the FAC pellet at 250 yards has dropped 89”, if it bounces on it will come to rest far sooner than a .22. At 500 yards it has dropped 2400” or 200 feet, but this drop will increase as it will likely be tumbling. So a ricochet at 50 yards isn’t going to make 3-400 yards.

The .22 drop is around 1/4 of the FAC pellet at 500 yards so shot straight or ricocheting it will travel further.

If I am shooting that FAC pellet detailed above at 45 degrees into a tree that I can clearly see has nothing for 400 yards behind it, after that 400 yards the pellet is only carrying 1 ft-lb the shot is perfectly safe, it is also far less likely to ricochet any distance, if at all. If the pellet stays within the boundary then the shot is perfectly legal.

I wouldn’t do that with a .22, .223 or .308 as the danger area is much larger and it would be a stupid thing to do.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Calibre specific but assuming the Op makes clear in his Variation request that such is in the interest of 'safety' he shouldn't encounter a problem and in fact might see a very prompt turnaround from Application to Grant.

K

 

[BenBhoy]

ground more intimately than you do your wife.

Well there's the two big hills, which leads down to the wild bush & if you head behind, round the corner you'll find a secret valley with hidden treasure.

And as for my land.....

 

[Squirrelbasher]

I use fac air turned down to 20ft lbs with a 14grain .22 pellet it stops rats better than 12ft lbs, a noticeable difference.

 

[Bowland blades]

Long had an urge to get an HW80 on ticket - .22 or .25. Springer simplicity and a nice flat trajectory with a big thump out to 40-50 yards max.

I have been using one for a good while one built by Steve Pope of Venom . In .22 flavour it does all i need and its a way better than than a mag fed system PCP . You see filling up your mag or mags in low light or illumination. Energy levels don't need to be much over the legal level and i run around 15 ft lb . its more for trajectory gains , all said and done sub 12 is adequate to be honest . When i want more thump or longer ranges , I often change to 22rf offers a great deal of ammo types from say CCI quiets up through the range into .22RF high velocity. RF is a little used tool hardly ever used in and around buildings though , indeed ratting with the 410 shotgun can be handy with the right load in the appropriate location .
22 Break barrel Airgun though ? nine out of ten against anything in my book !

 

[Bowland blades]

"FAC air rifles have much less chance of richochet than a .22LR,"

We realy cannot say this today , We can buy some pretty weak .22 ammo like the CCI Quiet and Some FAC air push heavy Slugs with enough energy to hunt medium game like deer in some nations.

Even being hit by a uk legal air pistol can and actually have killed.

 

[12gsnapcaps]

"FAC air rifles have much less chance of richochet than a .22LR,"

We realy cannot say this today , We can buy some pretty weak .22 ammo like the CCI Quiet and Some FAC air push heavy Slugs with enough energy to hunt medium game like deer in some nations.

Even being hit by a uk legal air pistol can and actually have killed.

You are - disingenuously - only quoting part of what I said, which was;

"FAC air rifles have much less chance of richochet than a .22LR, but never zero risk. If you're using slugs, the risk is about the same. If in doubt, do not take the shot."

 

[Squirrelbasher]

Ricocheting airgun pellets lose energy quickly and soon fall to the ground compared to a rimfire bullet. Nobody tries to cause a ricochet but they still happen. I use pellets in my fac air for that reason, where a rimfire ricochet would obviously be much more potentially dangerous but I'm just stating the obvious here. Anyway, a .22 pellet at 20-30ft lbs is a good tool for shooting rats in my opinion, I don't take unsafe shots. Drops them on the spot.