Importing expanding missiles from abroad - BASC clarify position

[deerwarden]

There is a lawful way of doing this, yet some of you want bypass this as a small group to buy in bulk, then divide, wake up its unlawful. I'm now finding buying secondhand bullet moulds, and gunsmith screwdrivers are now being stopped by customs and VAT applied + charges, there is now very little cost saving involved when this is added. Only just happened on every item purchased lately, you've missed the boat. deerwarden

 

[mperring]

matt, I told you that when I put the SAME info up on the importing expanding ammo thread 5 days ago with the links so anyone could download the license application form to return by email. yeh thanks for reading my post

Maybe so Paul but until today the actual LAW requires import permits for all controlled items across the board. The notice to importers was incorrect in law hence my request for clarification. The concessions are simply that and the government don't always mention them to shooters. We could, but thankfully not, have an opposite situation and an agreement that the notice was incorrect in law.

Paul, surely your not that nieve to think that everything you read is correct, especially from civil servants that get moved between depts on a regular basis.

What's important is that I've checked.

 

[mperring]

You enter them on your own certificate upon receipt, and put the name of the supplier in the relevant column.

-JMS

no requirement!!!

 

[mperring]

I'm not sure I follow.

The advice from the Import Licensing people seems to be that no specific import licence is needed when the S5 bullets are shipped to a UK recipient who is authorised by his FAC to possess them.

Are you suggesting that a specific import licence nevertheless is actually required?

Yes a licence is required for all controlled items under the firearms act BUT the dept for BIS have a right to make concessions, this is one of them.

 

[mperring]

I think it has now been established that, as well as complete rounds, S5 bullets do in fact need to be added to the FAC.

Not when imported by you by post but yes when an RFD or other certificate holder transfers expanding missiles or any ammunition to you.

 

[mperring]

Not according to the home office guide. Section 3 PARA 3 .

This guidance is wrong and the home office have changed it.... It's pending release.

 

[mperring]

I can see your point but you could also prove it with receipts. Too many people seem to think that they they would be commiting an offence by not entering them on their certificate and it just adds to the confusion when it comes to threads such as this one.

Expanding bullets do not have to be entered on ones certificate and BASC has also written guidance on this issue if you had concerns.

They Doooooo have to be signed on when transfered in the UK between FAC holders or from RFD to customer and BASC has provided guidance to prove it....
http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/A897A67F-8012-4B56-86FA7138DFFC3197

 

[Whitebeard]

So when your imported expanding bullets arrive at customs, how do they then get to your home address? or will you have to go and collect them?

Ian.

 

[mperring]

So when your imported expanding bullets arrive at customs, how do they then get to your home address? or will you have to go and collect them?

Ian.

Customs check your details and release them to be delivered.

 

[Whitebeard]

Customs check your details and release them to be delivered.

But who delivers them? will customs appoint an approved carrier?

Ian.

 

[mperring]

But who delivers them? will customs appoint an approved carrier?

Ian.

Whatever mail company is involved

 

[jon2]

The FAC table requires the authority of the person transferring. As foreign senders have no UK domestic authority then the cannot fill out the ammo table. There is no requirement for you to complete it yourself. Upon import if missiles etc at a port where you have the goods as "merchandise in baggage" I.e. hold luggage or luggage with you on a ferry then customs will sign it on for you as the certificate instructions require customs to do.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Ronin]

Strongly suggest anyone considering importing bullets from the US make sure they stay within Federal Law and obtain an EXPORT Licence from the US State Department (Circa 250 - 500 GBP) dependant on who submits the forms.

If you do not, you could (may) comit an offence under US Federal Law and while this may seem a world away across the Pacific, powers are in place to transport you to a Federal Court if the State Department require your presence.


Ive looked at doing this within the last 12 months and for a PERSONAL import (ie for someone who is filling an ammo allowance on a FAC) it isnt worth doing. - I wanted a replacement stock of Barnes TSX in 6.5 and 7mm for myself.


If your bringing in a pallet load, there is still margin for profit, but thats where the appointed importers (in the UK) make their income......

 

[jon2]

That would put the Willys up anyone Andy.

Even if contravening Fed law though do you think they would extradite you for a few boxes of bullets? That is said as a sincere question by the way. Possibly they would but I would find that scenario very difficult to envisage.

May be a more likely outcome would be you would be black listed for entry to the US but even that I find difficult to imagine.

I'm still debating this in my own mind.

 

[Ronin]

Fair point Jon.


Ive brought in alot of items from the States legitimately over the years. I wouldnt consider doing so without the correct paperwork in these "difficult times", especially if I ever were to consider returning for a holiday. For the sake of saving a few pennies or pounds, is it worth the risk?

Yes savings could be made - I was in BASS Pro in Florida a week ago - Varget $28, Barnes TSX in 7mm $35 for 50 etc etc

But once youve bought your allowance, paid for shipping (weight is the issue with bullets as you know) then been hit for import duty here, the savings are very marginal.

Not worth it for me.

 

[jon2]

One thing is for certain Andy and that is that I would never take anything for granted with regards to the Feds but just feel the chances would be a bit like a reverse lottery win. Possibly still not worth the risk though.

For me it is more about convenience and availabilty. Take your point entirely ref cost savings being marginal.

 

[al4x1]

But who delivers them? will customs appoint an approved carrier?

Ian.

Royal mail delivered my last lot, personally I wouldn't order in bulk for a few reasons one being holding amount second being value when it hits customs you are likely to get hit by handling and VAT etc and that then makes it not worthwhile. Ordering 2-3 boxes at a time means it comes in a very small postal pack, costs are low and customs don't look closely. I would be surprised if the last few lots I ordered got looked at to any extent as you have to open the packaging and read the box to know if they were expanding or not and that hadn't been done.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

what about Canadian suppliers?

 

[Paul at Fechan]

I'm not sure I follow.

The advice from the Import Licensing people seems to be that no specific import licence is needed when the S5 bullets are shipped to a UK recipient who is authorised by his FAC to possess them.

Are you suggesting that a specific import licence nevertheless is actually required?

I'm trying to 100% claify that so that there can be no confusion but the first response from customs goes like this:

Dear Mr A
​

I confirm that you currently do not need to apply to this branch for a specific import licence for component parts of ammunition. This is detailed in Annex 1 of the attached Notice to Importers.​

We are in the process of reviewing our current Notices to Importers and I will look to also include confirmation of that in the main body of the Notice when it is republished.​

Yours sincerely​

Roy Smiles | Import Licensing Branch | Department for Business, Innovation and Skills |
Queensway House | West Precinct | Billingham | TS23 2NF | enquiries.ilb@bis.gsi.gov.uk | | Fax: 01642 364269 | http://www.bis.gov.uk

---

From: me [mailto: me@hotmail.com]
Sent: 15 November 2012 20:06
To: Import Licensing Branch Enquiry Point (. E) IMLB01
Subject: import license application

​

Please see attached application for the import license for importing expanding bullet heads for the reloading of sporting ammunition (home loading of ammunition). These bullets are restricted as per the document BIS link below and covered under section 5 for which I have the appropriate firearm certificate reference G***** issued by Dumfries and Galloway Police which has the appropriate allowances to receive the amounts referenced in the application

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/BISCor...s-2815-licensing-firearms-ammunition-2012.pdf

 

[HotDogsForTea]

Whatever mail company is involved

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons,
Courier delivers package to fac holders home address. Fac holder is not at home but the wife or others at the address sign for the delivery, Happy Days.
Would they then be in illegal possession of sec 5 ammo ( unknowingly, maybe,) and also that sec 5 ammo is not secure until you come home and put it in your cabinet, ( have you then broke the conditions on your f.a.c, re safe custody, as the ammunition is no longer in transit?)
Can Anyone clarify?
Cheers,
Fatty.