8x57JS or 7x64 ? which is best ?

Olaf

Well-Known Member
Good morning, following a discussion I had the other day with a friend I thought I'd ask for some opinions about the following calibres. The round is to be used on both Deer, Goats, and Boar in this country and abroad, does anyone have experience of using both the 7x64 and the 8x57 IS ? He already has a 6.5 x 55.
My Lee loading manual doesn't seem to have any data on the 7x64 hence I can't compare the two. Looking at ballistic stats online they both seem to be in the same league with the 7x64 having just a little more going for it. The 8x57 IS also suffers from having been a military round and thus will be somewhat limited to which country's it can be used in.

Kindest regards, Olaf
 
Good cartridges both of them. Like you say the 7x64 being a non military cartridge is accepted in most countries it is probably flatter shooting also. Personally I would be happy using either cartridge.
 
no experience of the 7x64, but i was left an 8x57, and I love it. Sweeter to shoot than a .308, less meat damage and more reliable terminal ballistics than a .243. Not the flattest shooter, but fine out to 200 thus far.

James
 
I am a 8x57 fan and I also like the 280 Remington (very 7x64-ish) but were I in woodland areas and occasionally wanted heavy bullets, I'd get the 8x57. I have several that shoot bullets in the 170 to 225 grain weights very well.~Muir
 
7x64 is a very nice round, flat shooting and pretty mild in terms recoil. But given that you friend already has a 6.5x55 there is a pretty big overlap. 8x57 as Muir says can shoot bigger bullets, but if I was your friend I might well also consider going up to the 9.3x62 which is ideal for boar and plains game, but possibly a bit big for every day use on deer and goats, but that's what the 6.5 is for.
 
QUOTE=Heym SR20;549183]7x64 is a very nice round, flat shooting and pretty mild in terms recoil. But given that you friend already has a 6.5x55 there is a pretty big overlap. 8x57 as Muir says can shoot bigger bullets, but if I was your friend I might well also consider going up to the 9.3x62 which is ideal for boar and plains game, but possibly a bit big for every day use on deer and goats, but that's what the 6.5 is for.[/QUOTE]

Gents ! Thank you, thank you, all good info, its great to get some thoughts on this. Sorry, my last post was a little unclear, the idea is to drop the 6.5x55 and have a one rifle solution for Deer, Goats,and Boar.
In my opinion the 7x64 could be the best cal, I think that the fat bullets of the 8mm are a nice thing to have but will perhaps be a pain on longer shots on open ground, heigh seats etc. Any thoughts ? Is It a bitt too mild for driven boar ?
 
I've used an 8mm for quite a few years now and it is a very dependable round for any species out here. It doesn't have the bullet selection that the 7mm's enjoy though. I've never owned a 7x64, but I have owned a few 280 rem ( one was marked 7 mm Remington Express ) it is an excellent round that, with well constructed bullets, will handle boar easily. Its not much help, but I'd be happy with either round. The 7mm does shoot flatter so it does have a slight advantage if long shots are a regular thing. Personally, I'd probably base my choice on ammo/ reloading component availability, as this seems to be a bit problematic in the UK.
AB
 
Ok. Part of my enthrallment with the 8x57 is that one of my favorite rifles, a Husqvarna 648 is chambered for it. Certainly one of the finest handling rifles I own and regulated for 196 grain RN bullets. It comes to the shoulder so nicely that it makes many of my newer guns seem ungraceful.~Muir
 
I've used an 8mm for quite a few years now and it is a very dependable round for any species out here. It doesn't have the bullet selection that the 7mm's enjoy though. I've never owned a 7x64, but I have owned a few 280 rem ( one was marked 7 mm Remington Express ) it is an excellent round that, with well constructed bullets, will handle boar easily. Its not much help, but I'd be happy with either round. The 7mm does shoot flatter so it does have a slight advantage if long shots are a regular thing. Personally, I'd probably base my choice on ammo/ reloading component availability, as this seems to be a bit problematic in the UK.
AB

This is good info, as I expected; its the component choice that looks to be the guiding factor here. We'll have a phone about and I'll see what brass can be sourced, I think the 7mm bullets will be an easy thing for him to get though.
Anyway, thanks for the reply. If there is anyone with a 7x64 please do feel free to have your say !
 
Olaf ,
hope your all fit and well now ,my best mate uses his 7x64 for everything deer related and it has accounted for many foxs whilst out on the estate too .he doesn't reload and gets ammo fine in our area .it is a mannlicher classic half stock unmodded and I real sweet rifle .not massive meat damage no real recoil issues even without a mod and has accounted for 100's of deer from munty upto red .great cal .
cheers
​doug
 
Hi Olaf, thought I would chuck my oar into this one.

I have a 7x64 and a 9.3x62.

I like to think of the 7x64 as a .270W you can put bigger bullets through (perhaps the advantage of a 7mm pill). I've just zeroed mine with 165gr Geco soft nose (also discovered it shoots Norma Vulkan 170gr to virtually the same point which is handy). Generally, when it comes to driven hunting in France, .270W with a 150gr bullet tends to be considered the minimum and often there is the feeling that you should be using something "more". 7x64 with 170gr pills is good choice (I think RWS or Sako will sell you something up to 177gr and you can reload with a Hornady 175gr as well) and I was advised something like this from one of the French estates and you do see 7x64s set up in the battue style so they will handle driven shooting fine. The 7x64 also has advantages as it has never been issued by a military.
- In short I really like mine and have a 3-12x50 on the top of it.

9.3x62
I have mine set up as a specialist piggie rifle and as such is set up with an express V iron sight and regulated to 50yds. Very effective round and not brutal to shoot at all. I think as a woodland rifle for piggies and large (or even small) deer it will be great. However, 9.3x62 does not have a reputation as a long range round (It does seem to be a stable and predictable trajectory if not somewhat loopy). Also, be careful on ammo selection as I am not sure how much factory stuff will make the 2450 fps Scottish velocity requirements.

So, I don't think you'd have any problems with a 7x64 as a general purpose rifle.

Whatever you choose enjoy your shooting!

ATB,

Scrummy
 
I use the 7x65r and love it, and have used the 7x64r as well. It's a very versatile calibre with factory loads from fast flat shooting 123gn bullets - ideal for chamois, and long range small deer to 177gn bullets at c2650/2700 fps thumpers for big animals. It will happily take anything in Europe up to and including elk. The 8x57 has the thump for big game but does nt have the longer range flat shooting capability of the 7mm. My main comment though is that you friend already has the 6.5x55 and that prob does 90% of what a 7x64 can do. They both have long bullets at good velocities that penetrate well, yes the 7x64 is a bit more powerful but its not a huge jump up.

At the end of the day though, and as Muir commented, much of the choice will be down to the actual rifle.

from the Norma.cc website similar also RWS website

8x57 8x57 JS - Norma


The 8mm Mauser was adopted by the German army in 1888 and in the following years by a number of countries like Czechoslovakia. Poland and China. The designation “Mauser” is actually a misnomer as the cartridge was developed by a German military commission at Spandau Arsenal for a forerunner of the famous Mauser rifle which was adopted in 1898.


The “J” in the name stands for “Infanterie”. The “J” designation is due to a mistake deriving from the previous use of Gothic letters in Germany and has no significance regarding bullet size. But in 1905 the German army switched from round a nosed 226 grain bullets to a 154 grain pointed boattail bullet, and at the same time the diameter of the bullet was altered from .318” to the present standard of .323”. Accordingly the “S” - short for “Spitzer” - means that the barrel is made for .323” bullets.


Actually it is quite rare nowadays to find a bolt action rifle in the old “J”-caliber (.318”), but old combination guns are still around and a good many of them were made for the 8mm JR. To further complicate the problem many combination guns have only the bullet diameter (8,2 mm) stamped on the barrels regardless of the fact that a large number of 8mm cartridges have been made with very different sizes and shapes of cases. If the least in doubt do ask a qualified gunsmith before trying to fire any cartridge in an old weapon - even from the package that came with it.


The 8x57 JS and the rimmed version 8x57 JRS are both very flexible cartridge that duplicate the performance of the .30-06 and similar cartridges. Today not many bolt action rifles are made in 8x57 JS, but a good many double rifles and combination guns are still being chambered in 8x57JRS. However as the latter type of guns has a weaker action the loads should be reduced in order not to exceed the pressure limits.


and the 7x64 7x64 - Norma


Wilhelm Brenneke was a brilliant German cartridge designer and still famous in Europe for his development of slugs for use in shotguns. He also constructed a very modern line of rifle cartridges with the most popular bullet diameters from before the turn of the century, but with a larger powder space than the then “standard” length of 57 mm.


The first was 8x64 from 1912 which was designed in a an attempt to get a government contract for a more powerful military round than the 8x57. The attempt was in vain, but as the 7x57 was already popular Brenneke also constructed the 7x64 in 1917 - 40 years before the almost identical .280 Remington was introduced. Designed solely as a hunting cartridge the 7x64 is very widespread in Central Europe as several countries here have banned the use of military calibers for hunting.


To the handloader the 7x64 is a very versatile cartridge with bullet weights available from 80 to 180 grains. You could call it a European .270. As the powder space of the two cartridges is almost identical, the differences in performance are purely academic when it comes to bullets of equal weight. However due to its slightly larger bullet diameter - .284” compared to the .270’s .277” - the former has a slight edge when heavy bullets are needed for large species. The 7x64 is adequate for all species on the Northern hemisphere - including the big bears, provided a heavy bullet of good construction is used.
p
 
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Looks like HEYM gave you all the info you need, as well as others input. I have been shooting the 8x57js and the 7mm Remington express (280 Rem) for years,
I use the the 7mm with 150 grns or less for 200 yards and farther, and 175 grns for less than 200. I use the 8mm for the heavier stuff (bear & elk)with 180 or 200 grns,
and those shots will generally be well under 200 yards. But I would never feel under-gunned with either one. Good Luck !!
 
Ok. Part of my enthrallment with the 8x57 is that one of my favorite rifles, a Husqvarna 648 is chambered for it. Certainly one of the finest handling rifles I own and regulated for 196 grain RN bullets. It comes to the shoulder so nicely that it makes many of my newer guns seem ungraceful.~Muir

Good point, I've got an older Husky in 9.3x57, it fits me like a glove...... and its reassuring when hunting in grizzly country.

AB
 
Good point, I've got an older Husky in 9.3x57, it fits me like a glove...... and its reassuring when hunting in grizzly country.

AB

True that! Nothing like hunting in country where you're being hunted as well! I chased a mountain lion into dense brush last fall (it tried to pull a man off of a horse) and took a 45 auto pistol with a 14 round magazine. Going in I had a thought that the iron sighted Husky 648 with a 200grain bullet would have been a happier choice.~Muir

(I think I told you I have a Husky 146 (m-98) in 9,3x57 as well, didn't I? Would have been better yet)
 
Hi Andy, yes you did, mine is the 46( the 96 action) there is a company here( Tradex Canada) that is selling both models in 8mm, 9.3x57 and 9.3x62 from $250 to $400 dollars. I'm going to take one of the FN actioned 98's in 8mm for $350. I gave a young freind of mine my old Brno 8mm which he loves and uses for everything,deer to moose, very effectively I might add. For the game I hunt and the conditions I hunt in, its hard to beat a 98 mauser in 8mm with a good bullet
 
Gentlemen, many thanks for all of your advice, extremely helpful indeed. I'm pleased to say that based on all of the brilliant posts on here, and a little encouragement from me, he's chosen the 7x64, personally I think that this is the best choice of calibre for him.
I wish you all a lovely and relaxing Sunday and thank you all very kindly once more for having taken the time to assist in the decision making process.
Rite, I'm off to light the fire and find some breakfast, indeed, I intend it to be a day of much relaxation and cooking.

Kind regards, Olaf
 
Muir & AB, you have got to get yourself a 9.3x62! Known in some parts of Africa as "The Cat Killer" That'll deal with your mountain lion issues...
 
Olaf, I'm very pleased to hear it! Hope he gets lots of fun out of it as I do with mine.

ATB,

Scrummy
 
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