Split 30-06 cases what's the cause likely to be?!

[Brithunter]

Thanks mate is it 'technically' not legal for one person to home load for anothers rifle? Just curious!

Your getting into dubious territory and some could claim that one was manufacturing ammunition. Add in expanding bullets and the requirement of Authority to possess them and your in a mine field.

This was one of the claims the Police made at first at the time of the raid that I was manufacturing guns and ammunition which of course soon fell apart. It seems this was THE basis for teh raid however when it was found not to be the case they then switched tack and came up with other fabrications.

 

[stratts]

Ah ok mate I get ya!

 

[bewsher500]

Reading or trying rather to read pressures from primer appearance is futile here. Especially when there is no known normal reference for the shooter to compare them too in this rifle.

not if they are sticking out like nipples or flat to the edge like a counter sunk screw it isn't!

I agree that slightly abnormal looking primers may be normal in one person's rifle though

 

[finnbear270]

You mention that the factory rounds are Hornady?............. Well I won't buy any of their stuff, the last lot of lever revolution for the 45/70 was way toooooo short to be reloaded correctly, So perhaps you have another emerging problem there?

 

[saddler]

May be worth checking the code numbers

http://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/product-recalls

 

[Sinistral]

This can only be a headspace problem. The case has given way catastrophically at the web first, so it won't be an overload & the primers will be normal.

It might be that the ammunition is 'under length' but my gut feeling is that it's certain to be the rifle. It's never happened to me, but I've seen it in handloads fired in older rifles particularly in 7x57. What you're never sure about is how many times the cases in question have been reloaded.

In this instance with brand new cases there's no such doubt. It might be worth checking that the chamber hasn't been eroded or scored in a ring 'shape' from the hot gasses. I would take the rifle & cases back to your RFD. I'm guessing the ammo came from FRSS - rather than Bradshaws, but either will check it over.

 

[Milligan]

I've only seen that sort of separation once before.
The guy was using some ammo "that came with the rifle and the previous owner swore by it". The vent holes were put to good use...

How many rounds did you fire before these two separations and were they sequential?
If the gun has been performing and then suddenly there are 2 duff rounds then my money is on the ammo.

If an RWS target round can make it through the process without a flash hole (seen first hand) and Nosler "custom" arrives with oversized case heads then a Hornady can have flimsy case walls...

 

[stratts]

I fired 7 rounds before the final 2 gave way then stopped obviously. What I can't be sure of is whether the other 3 rounds that have similar damage, but not right through the casing, were 5, 6 & 7th shots out of the batch!

 

[stratts]

May be worth checking the code numbers

http://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/product-recalls

Thanks mate but mine is 150gr ammo,

Cheers

 

[wag]

If you can get to Norwich I'll give you a hand. I load 30.06 for my steyr. One of my loads is specifically a low recoil,(low pressure).

 

[bewsher500]

This can only be a headspace problem. The case has given way catastrophically at the web first, so it won't be an overload & the primers will be normal..

It could be headspace, but not only the headspace IMO
but I would wager if you ran brass from Norma, Lapua, Nosler etc through it they wouldn't breech at the webbing

also headspace issues also show in the primer (get those pics up stratts)

 

[Brithunter]

This can only be a headspace problem. The case has given way catastrophically at the web first, so it won't be an overload & the primers will be normal.

It might be that the ammunition is 'under length' but my gut feeling is that it's certain to be the rifle. It's never happened to me, but I've seen it in handloads fired in older rifles particularly in 7x57. What you're never sure about is how many times the cases in question have been reloaded.

In this instance with brand new cases there's no such doubt. It might be worth checking that the chamber hasn't been eroded or scored in a ring 'shape' from the hot gasses. I would take the rifle & cases back to your RFD. I'm guessing the ammo came from FRSS - rather than Bradshaws, but either will check it over.

Oh dear ............................. oh dear. Yes I have seen new cases rupture at the web in factory ammunition. Yes I have witnessed faulty over pressure factory ammunition even had a rifle damaged once by over pressure PMC ammunition. However I have never ........................... ever seen chamber eroded by a couple of gas escapes. I have seen bolt face erosion by firing many surplus ammunition that leaked back through the primer due to poor quality. Rubbish Arabic made (Eygptian) made 7.62x54R but even this took hundreds of rounds to do so.

have also seen gas cutting from many high pressure loads in .357 on revolvers but once again it took many............................. many rounds to do so and not TWO.

Oh yes the previous owner and user of this rifle is a respected member on these forums and he had no problems with it. Or are you suggesting he didn't know what he was doing?

 

[stratts]

May be worth checking the code numbers

http://www.hornady.com/in-the-news/product-recalls

I just checked my box and even though they are different grain the numbers are alarmingly close if you consider the many thousand rounds that Hornady produce!! I'll ring FRSS tmoro and see when they got sent the ammo as they should have records. Failing that I spoke to someone I know at Edgar Bros today who could find out when they imported them as they supply the gunshops around here!!

My ammo batch number #81093 and lot number #3110078

This was copied from the recall notice on Hornady's website thanks to Saddler!!

Item number 81153 LOT #3101052 November 2010
Hornady Manufacturing Company is recalling one (1) lot of 30-06 165gr SST Hornady Superformance™ Ammunition, Item #81153. This lot was shipped between the dates of 7-19-10 and 8-3-10.
Hornady Manufacturing Company ballisticians have determined that some cartridges from Lot #3101052 may exhibit excessive chamber pressures. Use of this product may result in firearm damage and or personal injury.

 

[stratts]

Ok here's a load of pics I took and I don't think you have to be Sherlock Holmes to see there may be an issue with the brass!! After looking closely I noticed a line/defect partly around 8 of the remaining 11 rounds I haven't used in about the same place that gave way!!

You can just about see it in the 1st two pics below!

These are the other pics of the primers and forgot to mention 1 misfire too!

I'm gonna call in tmoro to show them to the FRSS fellas,

Stratts

 

[Sharpie]

Stratts, don't be too quick to blame the ammo. The unfired brass "line defect" looks normal to me, it simply shows where the thicker case web joins the thinner section of the rest of the case.

Those flattened primers are indicative of headspace issues, and ISTM some of the head stamping has been slightly flattened too. Also the firing pin dimple is not well centred in several cases, which is worrying. As has been said, get the rifle checked out, particular attention to headspace (go-nogo gauged) and bolt/firing pin condition.

 

[P3T3R]

I would send an e-mail to Hornady including those photos, most of those primers look well over pressure.

I have heard a lot of reports about Hornady's "Superformance" being to hot for peoples rifles, they can't have velocities 100-200fps faster than others factory ammo without having higher pressures.

 

[stratts]

Funnily enough that's what the fella at the gunshop said about the claims of no added pressure on the casings!!

I just checked my Federal 22-250 factory rounds and they do not have a visible line around the case like the Hornady, just a feint difference in sheen/colour of the brass in the area!

 

[csl]

I'm not sure the visible line is conclusive of faulty brass (all my resized .30-06 brass bares a similar witness mark from the die) but the way it's looking my money would be on a combination of extra stiff load, slightly short brass and slightly long headspace. Probably none of them enough on their own to cause problem but combined together tolerances add up and a problem shows itself.

I'd get everything measured for safety's sake but if the factory cases are indeed sized on the short side and the headspace is slightly on the long side then at least you know and can work around it with a different brand or home loads resized and loaded accordingly

Alex

 

[bewsher500]

every single one of my norma 270 case exhibits a similar line at the webbing
that is not normally an issue

I would love to see one of these cases pulled and sectioned vertically

only about half my rifles have well centred firing pin strikes, totally normal to have slightly off centre strikes

the bigger issue is shown in the primers IMO


that primer to centre on the third pic is normal (if not quite a light flattening)
the rest are indicative of massive pressures, (or very low pressure, but as we know this is hotter than average ammo...)
combine that with possible over sized chamber, slightly undersized brass and a weak webbing....

some food for thought: http://www.the-long-family.com/fireforming 6-250AI.htm

was the bolt hard to lift at all on any of these?

 

[Orvil]

Stratts

Judging from the photo above and without seeing the rifle, my first impression would be those loads are way over pressure. Bottom right - flat as a run over pancake. Next 2 show cratering too. All evidence of over pressure loads. In fact, last time I saw a flattened primer like the bottom right was in a 44 mag S&W. It didn't blow the cylinder but it did give it a middle age spread.
Your first picture on page 1 also suggests headspace issues