Becoming an Approved Witness for DSC L2

[sikamalc]

Tim the criteria states that there is no help from the AW, you should have completed all your own preperations no matter where or who belongs to the land ,IE from method statement to a self risk assessment ,the AW is only there to observe and ask the co-joining questions to the element you are working on .

If he or they are passing you information other than safety point appertaining to the lands you are on , you are not ready for a level 2 certificate ,as your knowledge of your species and use of equipment should be up to scratch .

This is the very reason you have three years to complete the level two portfolio ,practice makes perfect every time ,Ive had clients ask me how, I would like to see the gralloch mmmmm on the grass, everyone does thing differently so to pin someone down for not doing someones text book gralloch is hardly the correct way around things, the level two is about how you conduct yourself ,working within safe constraints as per best practice requirements .

Their are far to many people want to collect bits of paper to quickly, the level one shows the theory and the level two the practical, nothing more or less than that ,it then allows the holder to apply for ground if the criteria for that land so requires it .



Malcolm if you apply for a rifle to shoot deer in Scotland you require the lands on which to stalk, you will not get it for a yearly lease either, it has been tried on several occasions and picked up on by the police every time, that goes for those you mentioned that so called dont have the where for or lifestyle ,the police will tell them hire an estate weapon as many do.

Ive had these point brought up to me on many an occasion for members of my syndicates who wish to get variations, moderated clauses removed etc Mainly by the English constabularies as those in scotland have open certificates thus cutting out on hassle for the FLO over the last 30 something years my certificate has always had the lands i shoot over on it at each time the police always contact the land owner to clarify that .

By some of the phone calls ive taken on behalf of syndicate members, the police forces in England run an even tighter ship, than those in Scotland asking for maps and details of the lands for open certificates and variations.

Without wishing to go off topic here, yes most english constabularies operate differently from Scotland. They often require more information and I have also had them check out the leases I have held in Scotland when I have had english members of a syndicate, even to the point where they have perstered the same estate 3 times over a period of several weeks. But this was some years back.

I was suprised to hear from a member of this site a few weeks ago that Cambridge do not believe in Mentoring, and yet West Sussex swear by it for all those taking up Stalking.

This is the system we have to keep up with which in my opinion causes confussion and a certain amount of chaos. Lets hope Scotland dosnt bring in more laws relating to air weapons.

 

[Tackleberry270]

I don't think so! By having to pay £105 for the list it stops antis getting hold of it for free! It's already far too easy for antis to hassle us without AW's getting unwanted phone calls from the idiots day and night.

Fair point. I'm not suggesting its published on the internet although there are plenty of Deer Stalkers who are on the web with their contact details already.

 

[Jimbo 30 06]

I don't think so! By having to pay £105 for the list it stops antis getting hold of it for free! It's already far too easy for antis to hassle us without AW's getting unwanted phone calls from the idiots day and night.

+1 the antis seem to have the BBC on their side anti Badger cull anti Deer cull i watched the news this morning and they were on about the Forrest of Dean and the Wild Boar cull showing 2 boar in a way that made them look like pets. They are wild and dangerous animals so perhaps when someone walking their dog gets attacked maybe they will be shown in light they should be Rant over.

Jimbo

 

[Tackleberry270]

For what its worth Norm. I am one AW who can't offer a client to stalking on my permissions. I have been on the AW list for a year. I have been able to talk through dsc2 requirements with a few folk but thats all. I have been part of a Large Deer Management group giving DSC2 style instruction for a lot longer and I suspect most of my witnessing will be done within the group rather than on other peoples permissions.

 

[timbrayford]

I don't think so! By having to pay £105 for the list it stops antis getting hold of it for free! It's already far too easy for antis to hassle us without AW's getting unwanted phone calls from the idiots day and night.

Perhaps once you have passed DSC1 you should then be given access to the AW list, highlighting those that are willing to offer instruction. atb Tim

 

[willie_gunn]

This puts the AW in an awkward position as no decent person wants to tell someone they are not up to scratch.

Why "awkward"? Surely it is far better to tell a candidate that they are not ready than to keep quiet (both literally and metaphorically) and then not sign off any PC's?

There is no requirement for an AW to provide instruction in the event of a candidate not having the skills or knowledge.

But I would have thought that, once the assessment has been halted for the day, any AW would be happy to provide advice?

willie_gunn

​

 

[devon deer stalker]

Why "awkward"? Surely it is far better to tell a candidate that they are not ready than to keep quiet (both literally and metaphorically) and then not sign off any PC's?

But I would have thought that, once the assessment has been halted for the day, any AW would be happy to provide advice?

willie_gunn

​

I know it happens but surely the owness is on the candidate to ensure they have the relevant hands on experience before they embark on the L2 route? As Tackleberry says, it can be awkward informing them they have shortcomings, nobody likes to be critical face to face do they?
I am sure the AW would provide advice/instruction on any observed shortcomings but in truth he shouldn't have to should he?
The last thing a L2 candidate should do is waste the AW's time on a booked AW stalk by not getting the experience first.
Cheers
Richard

 

[willie_gunn]

Richard

Whilst I agree with much of what you say (the candidate should have the expertise, the AW shouldn't have to provide advice, the L2 candidate shouldn't waste time, etc), personally I would far rather that someone was critical face to face than carry on taking my money and leaving me in the mistaken belief that my expertise was better than in reality it was. Otherwise how would you improve?

​willie_gunn

 

[User00001]

I'm afraid that being willing to honestly criticise and advise a candidate is an important skill and one which sorts the good AW's from the less good ones.

If anyone is uncomfortable being in this teaching/instructing/assessing situation then they are always going to find AW work difficult.

I like to honestly discuss a candidates abilities and experience on the telephone before they book a DSC2 stalk, that way we both know what to expect and can decide before we start if it is going to be training or assessment as it is not generally acceptable to combine the two.

 

[timbrayford]

I'm afraid that being willing to honestly criticise and advise a candidate is an important skill and one which sorts the good AW's from the less good ones.

If anyone is uncomfortable being in this teaching/instructing/assessing situation then they are always going to find AW work difficult.

I like to honestly discuss a candidates abilities and experience on the telephone before they book a DSC2 stalk, that way we both know what to expect and can decide before we start if it is going to be training or assessment as it is not generally acceptable to combine the two.

I totally agree, until you actually register for DSC2 and go stalking with an AW you have no real idea of your strengths and weaknesses, and I certainly don't have a problem with critical comments, how else are you going to learn? atb Tim

 

[Tackleberry270]

Why "awkward"? Surely it is far better to tell a candidate that they are not ready than to keep quiet (both literally and metaphorically) and then not sign off any PC's?



But I would have thought that, once the assessment has been halted for the day, any AW would be happy to provide advice?

willie_gunn

​

I agree with both comments. The DSC2 is there to provide a candidate the opportunity to prove their competence. This being the case they should be confident that they can achieve the PCs. The PCs are not a secret so if there are doubts on the part of the candidate that they can achieve them then this needs to be talked through beforehand. I don't like the idea that candidates are now 'chancing it' without having gained the experience.

For the record - I would have no problem telling someone if they were not ticking the boxes. I would also be happy to provide some instruction. BUT if the candidate is still a long way off then you can talk about things all you like but it is shooting deer and processing carcasses that they need not talk.