Strange Request For RFD Transfer

[Jim xyz]

Hi All,

I've just bought a rifle from an RFD to be sent to my local shop as I have done several times before.

But this time the guy selling the rifle is adamant that with the new Certs I now need to send my FAC to him so he can enter the details onto it before sending the FAC back to me and the rifle to my local RFD.

It sounds barking to me but he is absolutely sure that this is the way it must be done now. Has anyone else come across this?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[EMcC]

That sounds more like a scam to me.
Once he has your FC what's to stop him using your 'authority to acquire' and making off, he may not even have a firearm to sell you !!

 

[scubadog]

It sounds rubbish to me - RFD to RFD the second RFD would enter it on your cert.
Sounds like a scam or someone I wouldn't want to deal with.

 

[mereside]

I don't know the rules on transfare and would not normally post with things like this but i will say Adam is a good guy and definately no scammer so please dont start the linching with trial by tinterweb he is a good bloke, atb wayne

 

[Tackleberry270]

Its completely unnecessary and I would not be sending my certificate to anybody but it might be worth further investigation surely? Firearms licensing departments sometimes give out crazy advice and it might be worth checking why the sender is so sure about what they are saying? How long have they been an RFD? As an RFD when sending a firearm to another RFD they need to be in possession of a copy of the receiving RFD's certificate before the rifle can be sent. This is often done by fax. Perhaps this is where the confusion lies? Other than this I think its a scam!

 

[EMcC]

I don't know the rules on transfare and would not normally post with things like this but i will say Adam is a good guy and definately no scammer so please dont start the linching with trial by tinterweb he is a good bloke, atb wayne

Until you mentioned a name nobody in particular was being tried by tinternet, thanks for the info !
Good bloke or not he isn't aware of the system that's for sure.
The despatching RFD takes the sold firearm off of the sellers FC and is responsible for despatch and while in transit.
The receiving RFD enters it on his stock register until the buyer presents himself at the RFD's premises, when he then enters it onto the buyer's FC.

 

[Apache]

Some RFDs do it this way. Stop lynching the poor chap. I know the Northallerton gunshop does this. From their website:

[h=2]To purchase a gun (shotgun or rifle) by mail order from us, you need to find an RFD who is in living in your area, and is willing to accept a shotgun or rifle on your behalf.
[/h]

​

[h=2]We will then need a photo copy of their RFD faxing to us on 01609 774922, the next step is to send payment including your shotgun or firearms certificate to us at the address below.[/h]

​

[h=2]It will be returned after gun details have been added, usually the same day your gun is sent to your designated RFD on next day delivery. http://www.nsac.co.uk/mail%20order%20info.htm[/h]The advantage is there should be no RFD fees at the receiving end as it doesn't need to go on their register.

If it's a trusted RFD then it is a perfectly acceptable way of doing things, the receiving RFD just doesn't get £30 for 5 mins of paperwork!

You lot are so keen to get your pitchforks out!

 

[mereside]

Until you mentioned a name nobody in particular was being tried by tinternet, thanks for the info !
Good bloke or not he isn't aware of the system that's for sure.
The despatching RFD takes the sold firearm off of the sellers FC and is responsible for despatch and while in transit.
The receiving RFD enters it on his stock register until the buyer presents himself at the RFD's premises, when he then enters it onto the buyer's FC.

Eddy thanks for that but jim mentioned his name in the first post and will say that i personally know adam and will say as fact he is 100% no scammer and any mention can ruin a name in an instant and I will not stand back to let things get out of hand without him posting, thanks wayne

 

[EMcC]

Some RFDs do it this way. Stop lynching the poor chap. I know the Northallerton gunshop does this. From their website:

Wow, talk about short and sharp.
Now we not only know the names we now know the shop !
At no time should your FC be out of your control/sight so I am not sure whether the way that transaction takes place is even legal.

 

[mereside]

eddy you are jumping to the wrong conclusion it isnt the same shop

 

[Tackleberry270]

the next step is to send payment including your shotgun or firearms certificate to us at the address below.

It will be returned after gun details have been added, usually the same day your gun is sent to your designated RFD on next day delivery.

I don't even send my certificates to the FEO anymore (preferring to swap old for new in person) nevermind to a gunshop in another part of the country!! And just to save a few quid? I wouldn't do this.

 

[Apache]

At no time should your FC be out of your control/sight so I am not sure whether the way that transaction takes place is even legal.

Says who? It's perfectly legal to give your SGC to a third party and send them with a note to buy you shotgun cartridges.

You buy a gun from a distant RFD and send your cert. He looks and sees that 'Joe Bloggs' indeed holds the correct certificate. He then enters the sale onto the cert and posts it back. The RFD then sends the gun to a local RFD. When Joe Bloggs gets his certificate back he needs to present it to the receiving RFD to collect the gun.

I can't see the issue. There is no law you can't let your FAC/SGC out of your site (mine is in my car now, it was when it went for its MOT).

What laws do you think have been broken?

 

[Tackleberry270]

Says who? It's perfectly legal to give your SGC to a third party and send them with a note to buy you shotgun cartridges.

You buy a gun from a distant RFD and send your cert. He looks and sees that 'Joe Bloggs' indeed holds the correct certificate. He then enters the sale onto the cert and posts it back. The RFD then sends the gun to a local RFD. When Joe Bloggs gets his certificate back he needs to present it to the receiving RFD to collect the gun.

I can't see the issue. There is no law you can't let your FAC/SGC out of your site (mine is in my car now, it was when it went for its MOT).

What laws do you think have been broken?

I know the question wasn't to me but here would be my reasons,

I'm responsible for the safekeeping of my certificate and I have no control over it if I have sent it to someone I know nothing about.

I'm regularly out and about with my firearms and the law states I have to produce it on request by police . .... Can't do this if I don't have it with me!

One group I do a fair bit for make it compulsory that I carry it when on the ground.

 

[Apache]

I wouldn't send it to a random person, but I would have no problem sending it to an RFD.

I keep sending it back to the police for variations and they keep it longer than maybe 2 or 3 days you would be without it in this situation.

I know most RFDs don't do this, but in the eyes of the law I can see nothing illegal. There is actually a bit of sense in the idea. I did it one and sent my certificate to a gun shop down south somewhere. I posted to reassure the OP that, although not common, this does go on elsewhere and no need to assume the worst - as most of the other replies seem to do.

 

[csl]

It is unusual because from the RFD's point of view he is transferring a firearm to your local RFD and so (apart from the financial side of things) it really isn't his concern what your certificate is or says. It's trade to trade. Remember financial ownership is not really relevant to the firearms act.... only possession.

It is your local RFD's responsibility to check your certificate and entitlement before transferring that firearm to your certificate and entrusting it into your possession

Whilst I'm sure if it's a reputable RFD and there is nothing untoward (probably just being careful) I'm not aware of anything changing legally in that respect so would be interested in the reasoning behind it...

Alex

 

[Jim xyz]

Guys,

Just for the record I deliberately didn't mention the shop and it's not one that's been mentioned on this post.

I did send him my FAC because as far as I could tell he was a genuine guy doing what he has been told he has to do. It just seemed a strange system and I was wondering if others had come across it.

I must admit I do like the idea of the receiving RFD not charging now but I reckon they'll still want £35 just to sign for a parcel and then hand it to me. You'd think they'd be a better system if the rifle is already on your cert.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[I. Farticus]

TVP's view is that whoever you buy from should complete your FAC. If distance buying, and the RFDs are purely being used for the transportation, then you aren't buying it from them, you're buying it from the seller... However, my FEO just rolls his eyes, and we all get on with our lives.

The seller is probably just doing what he's been told to do, so you can't fault him for that.

 

[Frank Homes]

I know it seems strange and in practice most dealers just bend the law slightly to keep things simple. In this case dealer 1 is the seller and by law he must enter it on to table 2 of the certificate. It all stems from the definition in S. 32 of the 1997 Act which precludes dealer 2 (the receiving dealer) entering it onto table 2 of the certificate because he has no right to do so. He is not the seller, he does not own it, he is not lending nor giving it but he is transferring it and therefore he is bound by s 3 (2) of the 1968 Act which requires him to see the person's certificate before parting with possession. So the dealer in this case is spot on with the law.
F

 

[EMcC]

Having recently, last year, sold several of my firearms to individuals, both in UK and Europe including Southern Ireland, I have had a little bit of experience with the system and it has always done as mentioned in my post No 6.
No names were mentioned in post 1 and no sign of an amendment indicating a later amendment, so this post could have been very interesting without the accusations of 'Internet Lynching'
If an individual is happy to deal in the manner mentioned then feel free to carry on but I would certainly not be at ease using that system.
If it was that way, once the seller has entered the 'sold' details on the buyer's FC what is the difference between sending the firearm to an RFD to receive, open and then give to the buyer, to sending it by recorded delivery direct to the buyer ? !!!

 

[243ack]

Some RFDs do it this way. Stop lynching the poor chap. I know the Northallerton gunshop does this. From their website:

To purchase a gun (shotgun or rifle) by mail order from us, you need to find an RFD who is in living in your area, and is willing to accept a shotgun or rifle on your behalf.


We will then need a photo copy of their RFD faxing to us on 01609 774922, the next step is to send payment including your shotgun or firearms certificate to us at the address below.

It will be returned after gun details have been added, usually the same day your gun is sent to your designated RFD on next day delivery. http://www.nsac.co.uk/mail%20order%20info.htm

The advantage is there should be no RFD fees at the receiving end as it doesn't need to go on their register.

If it's a trusted RFD then it is a perfectly acceptable way of doing things, the receiving RFD just doesn't get £30 for 5 mins of paperwork!

You lot are so keen to get your pitchforks out!

Sorry Apache, but I find this statement a bit two faced after your recent exhortations concerning (illegal) antibiotics and the value of includung a 'professional person' in the loop.