Game dealer nightmare!
- Thread starter Shavesgreen
- Start date
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Nothing as far as I know, lol.
No! Read the Wild Game regs which are very specific!
The original version stated that 'small quantities' could be up to 300 carcasses per year!!!
Most local councils are quite clueless in this area. There is no mention of wild game on the list of what food premises include (I just Googled it!) so I would suggest that their page does not support it at all?
There's a lot of denial in this subject which I find quite strange as it is made very clear in Black and White and has certainly been taught on any DSC 1 course I have been on.
MS
But clearly not very well if you are correct in this??
Just look at the number of DSC1 holders who don't accept registration is required!
K
Fursty Ferret
Well-Known Member
As MS says.....black and white
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
NO!!!
ANYONE WHO SELLS TO A AGHE !!!!!!!!!!
Why would a private Stalker be exempt Food Standards Hygiene and Traceability Regs??
MS
I believe it is different in Scotland. As long as the game dealer is a Licensed Venison Dealer a stalker can sell him carcasses in the Fur.
Not sure if there is any legal requirement for the stalker to have the " Trained Hunter" that came with the DSC level 1 and also available as a separate course.
Not sure if there is any legal requirement for the stalker to have the " Trained Hunter" that came with the DSC level 1 and also available as a separate course.
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
They only choose not to accept this as they are in 'Denial' and choose to bury their heads in the sand as it doesn't suit them or they have no interest!
Jcampbellsmith on here posted this back in April, and not one reply to the post:
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co....9-Wild-Game-Guide-updated?highlight=wild+game
Interestingly he states that the original version dates back to 2001 which I was unaware of.
Whether folk choose to accept it or not is up to them, but ignorance is no excuse for non-compliance!
Your choice really, but registration is not difficult at all.
MS
So one must speculate just how many Trained Hunters have experienced a refusal to a accept a suitably tagged carcass by a Game Dealer wishing comply with this regulation? If none then surely this says an awful lot about the state of this industry and in consequence probably brings us back to where the thread started with an assertion Game Dealers have more in common with South East London scarp dealers than one entrusted with a key component of Public health.
K
devon deer stalker
Well-Known Member
MS
Don't waste anymore of your time on this, you are knocking your head against a brick wall.
Cheers
Richard
Don't waste anymore of your time on this, you are knocking your head against a brick wall.
Cheers
Richard
NO!!!
ANYONE WHO SELLS TO A AGHE !!!!!!!!!!
Why would a private Stalker be exempt Food Standards Hygiene and Traceability Regs??
MS
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
First you should question who would be to blame when it all went wrong and you may then discover the answer!
It is not down to a AGHE to check your status. Whether the carcass is tagged or not doesn't give any indication other than a declaration by a 'trained hunter'. To gain 'trained hunter' status you must have completed a large game handling certificate which would imply that you are fully conversant with large wild game handling regs?
So who would be most likely to get the blame when food standards were questioned:
1. The 'Approved Game Handling Establishment' who is full compliant and 'Approved'.
2. The supposed 'Trained Hunter' who has chosen to ignore FSA regs and therefore does not comply.
Let's think, who would be easiest to prosecute?.......Hmmmmm?
The AGHE is laughing as they have a 'scape goat', so why would they drive that to change?
You need to cover your own ass if you are to survive in the litigious culture in which we now exist!
As I said, it's your choice!
I'm off for a lay down now in a quiet place.
MS
Thank you for the guidance MS. Ignorance is no defence in law, or on SD apparently, but it does not necessarily equate to wilful denial as you state.
I have never sold any game, it has either been eaten by family or given away, so as Klenchblaize says I would have expected to be informed by the Butcher or AGHE of the need to be registered the first time I contacted one. But I did look at the local authority site a few years ago when I was exploring the possibilities and thought it was clear that I did not meet the requirement for registration.
As far as I can see from the Wild Game guide paragraph 17, which presumably trumps the local authority criteria I quoted, it is any one who sells must be registered as a food business. And not only anyone who sells to an AGHE as you state. So even a single carcass to the local butcher requires registration.
Whether the local authority choose to inspect your set up if you are not going to be involved more then five times in five weeks is up to them I guess. The onus is obviously on us to register.
Thank you again for banging your head on the brick wall, you have dislodged at least one brick!
Alan
I have never sold any game, it has either been eaten by family or given away, so as Klenchblaize says I would have expected to be informed by the Butcher or AGHE of the need to be registered the first time I contacted one. But I did look at the local authority site a few years ago when I was exploring the possibilities and thought it was clear that I did not meet the requirement for registration.
As far as I can see from the Wild Game guide paragraph 17, which presumably trumps the local authority criteria I quoted, it is any one who sells must be registered as a food business. And not only anyone who sells to an AGHE as you state. So even a single carcass to the local butcher requires registration.
Whether the local authority choose to inspect your set up if you are not going to be involved more then five times in five weeks is up to them I guess. The onus is obviously on us to register.
Thank you again for banging your head on the brick wall, you have dislodged at least one brick!
Alan
If a RFD is going to purchase your shot-out Blaser he will mostly likely wish to see your FAC.
By the way I think you'll find I've been supportive of your position on this but enjoy your 40 winks!
K
howa243
Well-Known Member
Got to agree with this.
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
No!
This is where it gets a bit silly!
Look at table box 2 on page 8 here:
http://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/multimedia/pdfs/guidance/wild-game-guide.pdf
Where it states:
2. If you are a hunter, estate or shoot that supplies all of your in-fur/in-feather wild game carcases directly to the final consumer or to local retailers that directly supply the final consumer and
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]not [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT]to [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Approved Game Handling Establishments (AGHEs). [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]You are
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]not [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT]subject to the requirements of the EU Food Hygiene Regulations. However, you are responsible for supplying safe food under The Food Safety Act 1990 and Regulation 178/2002.
For more information see
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Paragraphs 15 to 17. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT]
Mind you, you will struggle to find many butchers now that will take deer in its jacket as they need a seperate chiller to store animals in fur.
MS
Interesting thread this and has raised a couple of important points in my opinion.
1. The DSC1 course providers are not relaying the correct information as we were clearly told (July 2013) that we did not have to be registered as a food business to sell carcasses to a game dealer. I myself asked this question as I have (and still do) sell rabbits in fur to my AGHE, although I have yet to sell a deer carcass and am not registered with the council. Something I obviously need to think about!
2. Before I did my DSC1 I rang my AGHE about selling Muntjac carcasses and was told that it was not a problem without any training whatsoever. The process was shoot the deer, retain the pluck in a plastic bag to be delivered with the carcass then their vet who visits daily would inspect the carcass and pluck and declare fit for consumption. I would then be paid the going rate of £1.50/kg. This was about 2 years ago and is obviously quite a concern as it makes you wonder where and who they are accepting carcasses from?!
Stratts
1. The DSC1 course providers are not relaying the correct information as we were clearly told (July 2013) that we did not have to be registered as a food business to sell carcasses to a game dealer. I myself asked this question as I have (and still do) sell rabbits in fur to my AGHE, although I have yet to sell a deer carcass and am not registered with the council. Something I obviously need to think about!
2. Before I did my DSC1 I rang my AGHE about selling Muntjac carcasses and was told that it was not a problem without any training whatsoever. The process was shoot the deer, retain the pluck in a plastic bag to be delivered with the carcass then their vet who visits daily would inspect the carcass and pluck and declare fit for consumption. I would then be paid the going rate of £1.50/kg. This was about 2 years ago and is obviously quite a concern as it makes you wonder where and who they are accepting carcasses from?!
Stratts
I find that really strange. As a Registerred Food Business do you not have a licence number that is required on the Tag? Seems slightly inconsistent as far as traceability goes then, not joined-up thinking at all.
I would have thought that even if not required by law to verify the status of the source of supply, that it would be in an AGHE's interest to do so. Mud sticks, and even when the culprit is discovered every trader in the food chain must suffer a bit of a tarnished reputation.
Alan
I was attempting to be diplomatic in this matter but as you’ve now said it so plainly I won’t disagree!
Perhaps we need a JELEN “Small Food Business Registration Familiarisation”course as a bolt-on to their cutting-edge DSCL1 offering??
K
I agree that is what the boxes say, but then if you look at paragraph 17 it says even though the eu food hygiene regs don't apply you are still supplying and therefore a food business and therefore must register!
Alan
17. However, even though such supply is exempt from the food hygiene rules, underEuropean food law you are operating a food business1. You will therefore berequired to register with your local authority as a food business (see paragraph 41)and the game will be subject to the traceability requirements of Regulation178/2002 (see paragraphs 43-45). Furthermore, irrespective of whether theindividual or estate is a food business or not, there are duties under Regulation(EC) 178/2002 and the Food Safety Act (Food Safety (NI) Order in NorthernIreland) not to place unsafe food on the market or to mis-describe food.
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I was attempting to be diplomatic in this matter but as you’ve now said it so plainly I won’t disagree!
Perhaps we need a JELEN “Small Food Business Registration Familiarisation”course as a bolt-on to their cutting-edge DSCL1 offering??
K
I'm not good at subtle, as I get told quite often at home!!
My course was with BASC so can't comment on anyone elses content but given some responses to this thread others 'may' be the same. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough!
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