Belted or short 
?
?Best caliber for mountain hunts?
- Thread starter CORJU
- Start date
You have to define "Mountain Hunting" and the shots you will take first. My guess is that you are talking about 400 to 600 yard Chamois or similar, otherwise It would be little different to shooting over here.
I have just bought a rifle for just that job, Chamois in the Alps this Autumn. I will also be using it as my hill rifle, so it's not just a one trick pony.
I tend to look at what I want from a bullet rather than the calibre first. If my max distance is 600 yards (not saying it's right, just what happens in the mountains of Europe and especially NZ) you are going to need something that is carrying over 1000ftlb of energy as a minimum at that distance and expands reliably at the bullets TV - whatever that may be.
At that distance trajectory and windage are very much a factor, so I would be looking for a high BC as well, ideally over .500, preferably more. If I was feeling really brave I might suggest we are in Berger and AMax territory at that distance, a combination of high BC and reliable expansion at lower velocities. You probably wouldn't want to take a 100 yard shot with one though, so I have not used them.
In terms of high BC bullets you are probably looking at 6.5 and 7mm calibres to get the ideal.
My 6.5*47 Lapua with a 140 grain Nosler BT with a MV of 2750 fps only has 980ftlb of energy at 600 yards, speed is about 1750 fps which is getting a bit marginal for expansion and wind drift is 57 inches in a 20 mph wind.
A 270 with a 150 grain Nosler BT with a MV of 2850fps has 1100 ftlb at 600 yards, speed is just over 1800 fps which is a tad low but should initiate expansion, and drift in the same 20 mph wind is about 56 inches.
280AI (I have one coming just for this job) with a 162 grain SST with a MV of 2950fps has just over 1400ftlb, is travelling at 2000 fps and has drift of 47 inches. If you did go with the AMAX you would increase TV and energy and reduce drift to just 40 inches.
If you go up to 30 cal and start launching bullets with that sort of BC fast enough to match the performance of the 7mm you end up being over gunned IMHO and suffer significant recoil, which I don't enjoy very much. Hence my personal preference for the 280AI.
Too wide a variety of mountains, open and wooded, or high grass and shrubbery.
Too wide a variety of game, from chamois to red deer, elk, sheep from mouflon to Marco Polo, and mountain goat.
Beyond 300 yards, the wind and thermal currents move bullets too much. This is more about shooting skill and experience than about bench accuracy and ballistics tables.
And since every species of mountain game is taken with muzzle loaders, bow hunters, and with rifles like 7x57mm with iron sights, I think you really need a really good reason to not stalk closer than 300 yards on any game, in any mountains.
Too wide a variety of game, from chamois to red deer, elk, sheep from mouflon to Marco Polo, and mountain goat.
Beyond 300 yards, the wind and thermal currents move bullets too much. This is more about shooting skill and experience than about bench accuracy and ballistics tables.
And since every species of mountain game is taken with muzzle loaders, bow hunters, and with rifles like 7x57mm with iron sights, I think you really need a really good reason to not stalk closer than 300 yards on any game, in any mountains.
If someone is taking a shot @600 yards it is not because they "have to". That is outside the perceptive range of most game animals. It is not hunting, it is shooting.
One can always get closer. If you can't, then you pass on the animal--that is called ethical hunting.
Lastly, as someone who partakes in long distance target shooting I often wonder if most proponents of "long range hunting" really know how far 600 yards is? It is an exceptionally long shot, and one where, in an effort to make a clean kill, the shooter must have a very clear understanding of doping wind, the limitations of his load, etc., and this is not always a guarantee. Regardless, I don't think it is ethical shooting a sentient creature outside of their perceptible range. Shooting is not hunting/stalking.
I grew up hunting the foothills and rocky mountains in western Canada. The concept of a "mountain" cartridge or rifle is marketing speak. How does shooting a whitetail on the prairies differ from shooting a dall sheep above the treeline? I've never understood this nonsense. Distances are always variable, and when I am outside of 400 yards (my absolute max) I get closer.
Any moderate velocity (2400-2800fps) small bore will work reliably. I hunt the Rockies with 6.5x55, 7x57, .358 Win and my .45-70. I know guys who hunt mountain goats with their lever action .30-30s--they always seem to get their game.
Hales Smut
Well-Known Member
Fully agree. A 300 Win Mag would be great, but 300 WM rifles mostly are not "mountain rifles" just to heavy.
270 / 30-06 / 7x64 would be great on most medium sized game. A 7mm Rem Mag is nice also, but more suited to the heavier species.
I've never been a 270 man, but if I would live in the highlands a 270 would be my choice.
Yes, there is a lot more to a rifle for mountain hunting than the cartridge.
Weight - My Tikka T3 Lite SS in .30-06 was about ideal ( 7 lbs scoped).
Durability - SS and synthetic is nice
Size - My Mannlicher carbines in .270, .30-06 and 7x64 are really handy in brush and around rocky trails
Iron sights - My T3s don't have them, and I don't want go to on a far away trip without them.
The .270 Mannlicher Stutzen has good iron sights and QD scope, still gets 3,050 fps with 130-gr
My 7x64 Mannlicher has good sights, QD scope, power, but is big and heavy. Same for my Model M Pro in '06
My .280 Rem SHR 970 is in between the T3 and Mannlicher in weight, but no sights.
----- edit
I will add that I ordered the Steyr Prohunter last year, with rugged iron sights, in 7x64 ( a chambering not normally available in the USA), with the 23.5-inch barrel, to get the full potential out of the cartridge, specifically for hunting overseas where .30-06 may not be legal, and for hunting the Cascades, Rockies, and Appalachian Mountains for Auodad, sheep, goats, deer, boar, bear, and elk.
Weight - My Tikka T3 Lite SS in .30-06 was about ideal ( 7 lbs scoped).
Durability - SS and synthetic is nice
Size - My Mannlicher carbines in .270, .30-06 and 7x64 are really handy in brush and around rocky trails
Iron sights - My T3s don't have them, and I don't want go to on a far away trip without them.
The .270 Mannlicher Stutzen has good iron sights and QD scope, still gets 3,050 fps with 130-gr
My 7x64 Mannlicher has good sights, QD scope, power, but is big and heavy. Same for my Model M Pro in '06
My .280 Rem SHR 970 is in between the T3 and Mannlicher in weight, but no sights.
----- edit
I will add that I ordered the Steyr Prohunter last year, with rugged iron sights, in 7x64 ( a chambering not normally available in the USA), with the 23.5-inch barrel, to get the full potential out of the cartridge, specifically for hunting overseas where .30-06 may not be legal, and for hunting the Cascades, Rockies, and Appalachian Mountains for Auodad, sheep, goats, deer, boar, bear, and elk.
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N.F.W.M
Well-Known Member
Having hunted in mountainous regions frequently I don't understand the need for a light rifle. Maybe that comes from having done much mountaineering as a youngster with heavy packs on. My preference is for a heavier rifle that I will be confident with to take a longer shot if required. The one thing I would change about my current 'mountain' rifle is the barrel length, I would have it at 24 inch not 26.
Regards
Ed
Regards
Ed
What makes a heavier rifle more accurate? What altitudes do you hunt at?~Muir
Most important is to know the rifle/load/drops & windage. Cal is secondary between 270, 270wsm, 308, 30-06, 7-08 etc.
Up to 300m I am happy with my light barrelled 308, beyond that I prefer my medium weight barrelled rifles but only because I have more long range practice with them.
edi
Up to 300m I am happy with my light barrelled 308, beyond that I prefer my medium weight barrelled rifles but only because I have more long range practice with them.
edi
Shootgun
Well-Known Member
I used .270 for years for chamois, and a shorter ,medium weight barrel and open sights are a must IMHO. Even the most robust rig can easy be knocked off zero if you slip on some boulders... My playground is between 6000 - 8200 ft above sea level and takes a whole day to get where the action is, so you want your kit to be in good order, going back is not an option...
Below is a pic of my playground,taken last year, so you'll have an idea...
Below is a pic of my playground,taken last year, so you'll have an idea...
I used .270 for years for chamois, and a shorter ,medium weight barrel and open sights are a must IMHO. Even the most robust rig can easy be knocked off zero if you slip on some boulders... My playground is between 6000 - 8200 ft above sea level and takes a whole day to get where the action is, so you want your kit to be in good order, going back is not an option...
Below is a pic of my playground,taken last year, so you'll have an idea...
Pretty. Mine runs 4-8K (I live at 3.5K) and along with the rifle, you need to carry gear to keep you alive should you run into difficulties. A light weight rifle is a real benefit.~Muir
Shootgun
Well-Known Member
Agree, i didn't mentioned the gear as is compulsory. Ice crampons and good quality climbing rope are a must.
Hmm, I'm 19 and spend my whole life working outdoors, stalking, walking, running marathons ect. I'm not trying to brag just show that I'm pretty fit and used to hard work. However two days in to my recent nz tahr hunting trip I decided I hate heavy rifles, so much so that I'm now getting a new t3 lite .i can't understand why anyone would burden themselves on such a hunt with a heavier rifle.
Dead right, no matter how fit or unfit, weight will slow you down.
Ultra light rifles if built properly can be very accurate, no need to lug a varmint rifle around for hunting purposes.
edi
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