Explain for an Outsider - election outcome

[willie_gunn]

And how many seats each party would have achieved if each seat was "worth" the average of 47,162 votes

Conservative - 235
Labour - 195
SNP - 32
LibDem - 51
Plaid Cymru - 4
UKIP - 81
Green - 25

 

[paul k]

Some lessons from last night include:

1. People either lie in opinion polls or change their minds once in the polling booth, or both.
2. SNP ran a good campaign but benefitted from Labour backing the "no" vote in the referendum.
3. Sturgeon has now a load of MPs but virtually no power, also no chance of a second referendum from the Conservative & Unionist Party.
4. UKIP may only have won one seat under "first past the post" but were a good 2nd in many places and were a clear 3rd in share of the overall vote. In Wales they got 14% of the votes, more than the nationalists and twice that of the LibDems traditionally strong in rural Wales.
5. LibDems paid the price for going into coalition getting only hundreds of votes in many places.
6. Labour just plain got it wrong either with their policies or leader or both and got a worse result that Gordon Brown.
7. Cameron probably surprised not to need support from others but clearly said the right things to take votes from both Labour and the LibDems virtually everywhere but particularly in the marginals.
8. Greens got more votes than the SDP.

 

[Yoda]

Sorry, I have to disagree.

A democracy - or at least a representative democracy such as ours - is where the power is vested in the people to freely elect their representatives as they see fit. So part of a democracy is also the ability to exercise the right not to vote.

Dictating to people that they have to vote is, by definition, not a democracy. The key is in the word "dictating". There's a strong argument that compulsory voting breaches the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and there are numerous groups who feel it is wrong to take part in political process.

That's why less than 30 countries still have laws on compulsory voting, with only 14 of those enforcing those laws.

OMG the UDHR argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just think about what you've said. all the countries that don't have it are frightened of having a true vote, nothing to do with UDHR

I have never voted labour and never will.
All I am saying is the party in power irrespective who it is gets in with 20% of the vote. As far as I am concerned that is wrong.

 

[willie_gunn]

OMG the UDHR argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just think about what you've said. all the countries that don't have it are frightened of having a true vote, nothing to do with UDHR

I have never voted labour and never will.
All I am saying is the party in power irrespective who it is gets in with 20% of the vote. As far as I am concerned that is wrong.

I thought very carefully about what I said.

What's ironic is that at work we've just held two minutes silence for VE Day, and the UDHR arose directly out of the experiences of the Second World War.

Article 2, which is the relevant one here, states:

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Seventy years ago that was something we had felt worth fighting for. I'm truly sorry you feel different.

 

[Yoda]

And how many seats each party would have achieved if each seat was "worth" the average of 47,162 votes

Conservative - 235
Labour - 195
SNP - 32
LibDem - 51
Plaid Cymru - 4
UKIP - 81
Green - 25

So what do you think that means?

 

[willie_gunn]

We voted to keep first past the post in 2011
We voted in a general election yesterday
We got exactly the result we voted for

Simple

 

[.25-06]

Bewsher, I think that is about as accurate as your avatar...

So as they are now the majority political representatives for the people of Scotland you don't think that will be point one on page one on Monday?

Say what you like about them, they have played a very shrewd game splitting the country down the middle (or near enough), pulling on millennia old stigma and hatred of the "Auld Enemy"
The problem I have with them is that they have not one ounce of historical credibility in running a council let alone a country.
They only want Independence for themselves, to put them on the world stage.
Anything else you think about equality is a pipe dream
Equality ....this from the women ruling 5m people who now has a ****ing helicopter!

if I thought my life would get better as a result of an independent Scotland I would be fully behind it.

As for the racism that we dare not speak of....I have seen cars keyed and windows smashed as a result of political persuasions.
You may not see that in darkest Perthshire but it is here in the cities.

I dread to think what wee Jimmy Krankie and Eck will get up to now they think they have the UK on the run.

 

[Cootmeurer]

Thank you all (well, most of you all) for the clarification. I don't try to follow much politics outside the US, but I do try to track Canada and the UK, as you both tend to be our most stalwart allies.

If I can summarize what I seem to have gleaned; very little change likely south of Hadrian's wall, which is not a bad thing, and the possibility for quite a bit of urban driven change in the north, that may be disastrous or may just be a bunch of hot air/smoke-n-mirrors.

I especially appreciate the vote numbers, that is actually very similar to a couple of our states (like NY an IL) an Urban center (NYC or Chicago) essentially controls the entire state, often in ways quite counter to what the non-urban areas want/need/desire.

 

[KBar1970]

What has been missed by some is that a number of marginal seats were gained by the Conservative candidate as a result of campaigning against the sitting candidate...either the winning candidate being in favour of repeal of the Hunting Act and/or the losing candidate having been against repeal...Corby, Colchester, Taunton Deane to name but a few

 

[paul k]

..........

I especially appreciate the vote numbers, that is actually very similar to a couple of our states (like NY an IL) an Urban center (NYC or Chicago) essentially controls the entire state, often in ways quite counter to what the non-urban areas want/need/desire.

In fact some years ago the then Labour government changed the constituency boundaries in some parts, including where I live, to bring more of the traditionally Labour voting urban areas into what had previously been non-Labour voting rural areas. My local constituency went back to the Conservatives yesterday despite the tinkering.

 

[Alantoo]

And how many seats each party would have achieved if each seat was "worth" the average of 47,162 votes

Conservative - 235
Labour - 195
SNP - 32
LibDem - 51
Plaid Cymru - 4
UKIP - 81
Green - 25

That would look even healthier to me if those of the smaller parties that voted tactically to keep the perceived Labour or Conservative threat out, were able to vote for what they wanted...rather than against what they did not want.

You are right, the country did vote for First Past The Post. But those with a vested interest in the FPTP system framed the referendum question…it was not a vote against any sensible or workable version of PR. There was no debate…PR advocates outmanoeuvred? Too right.

Alan

 

[paul k]

So as they are now the majority political representatives for the people of Scotland you don't think that will be point one on page one on Monday?

Say what you like about them, they have played a very shrewd game splitting the country down the middle (or near enough), pulling on millennia old stigma and hatred of the "Auld Enemy"
The problem I have with them is that they have not one ounce of historical credibility in running a council let alone a country.
They only want Independence for themselves, to put them on the world stage.
Anything else you think about equality is a pipe dream
Equality ....this from the women ruling 5m people who now has a ****ing helicopter!

if I thought my life would get better as a result of an independent Scotland I would be fully behind it.

As for the racism that we dare not speak of....I have seen cars keyed and windows smashed as a result of political persuasions.
You may not see that in darkest Perthshire but it is here in the cities.

I dread to think what wee Jimmy Krankie and Eck will get up to now they think they have the UK on the run.

The SNP may have a load of MPs at Labour's expense but it means nothing now in terms of political power now that Labour have blown it almost everywhere else as well. They may well be noisy in Westminster but basically every one of their "red lines" that would been used to blackmail support for a minority Labour administration is down the drain, including another referendum as they have to be approved by Westminster, i.e. the Conservative & Unionist Party. Jimmy Krankie and Eck may well be heard a lot in Parliament but there's not much they can get up to.

 

[bewsher500]

The SNP may have a load of MPs at Labour's expense but it means nothing now in terms of political power now that Labour have blown it almost everywhere else as well. They may well be noisy in Westminster but basically every one of their "red lines" is down the drain, including another referendum as they have to be approved by Westminster, i.e. the Conservative & Unionist Party. Jimmy Krankie and Eck may well be heard a lot in Parliament but there's not much they can get up to.

Seriously?
Have you read the list of devolved powers they have access to but have not yet got their teeth into?
they have made inroads to some but now with blanket coverage you, well not you as you are in Wales, but the rest of us poor sods should be very nervous of the highlighted aspects.

• health
• education and training
• local government
• law, including most aspects of criminal and civil law, the prosecution system and the courts
• social work
• housing
• tourism and economic development
• some aspects of transport, including the Scottish road network, bus policy, and ports and harbours
• planning and the environment
• agriculture, forestry and fishing
• sport and the arts
• miscellaneous matters, such as compiling statistics and keeping public records

And this bit really scares me:
"The devolved powers give the Scottish Parliament the opportunity to produce Scottish solutions to Scottish problems."

 

[paul k]

Seriously?
Have you read the list of devolved powers they have access to but have not yet got their teeth into?
they have made inroads to some but now with blanket coverage you, well not you as you are in Wales, but the rest of us poor sods should be very nervous of the highlighted aspects.

• health
• education and training
• local government
• law, including most aspects of criminal and civil law, the prosecution system and the courts
• social work
• housing
• tourism and economic development
• some aspects of transport, including the Scottish road network, bus policy, and ports and harbours
• planning and the environment
• agriculture, forestry and fishing
• sport and the arts
• miscellaneous matters, such as compiling statistics and keeping public records

I can see your point about devolved powers, but they were all already given previously, nothing to do with this election and I still don't see how the increased SDP presence in Westminster has any bearing on the UK Government, or am I missing something?

What I can see happening in this Parliament is increasing federalism all over the UK, including in England. The next election might be very different.

 

[bewsher500]

i can see your point about devolved powers but I still don't see how the increased SDP presence in Westminster has any bearing on the UK Government, or am I missing something?

What I can see happening in this Parliament is increasing federalism all over the UK, including in England. The next election might be very different.

Ah no sorry, that's not what worries me
its the increased stranglehold on Hollyrood that worries me
they have no opposition..at all...

in westminster they are just another opposition party

 

[paul k]

Ah no sorry, that's not what worries me
its the increased stranglehold on Hollyrood that worries me
they have no opposition..at all...

in westminster they are just another opposition party

OK, that makes more sense, don't you have an election next year?

 

[private fraser]

Ah no sorry, that's not what worries me
its the increased stranglehold on Hollyrood that worries me
they have no opposition..at all...

in westminster they are just another opposition party

Exactly.
One party states may work in Africa (may even be necessary) but here it is very unhealthy I think.
The opportunity to dominate committee's, "redact" any criticism and hide poor performance are already being used. We don't want any more of it.

 

[tom_o_m]

We'll sleepwalk into a referendum that will be ruinous for our country. Ridiculous.

 

[kes]

I for one feel sorry for a lot of people after this election - Nick Clegg because he is a man with moral aspirations and thought others would recognise it. Ed Balls because he's finished - that makes me smile a little. Ed Milliband because he's finished but he was the best vote winner the Conservatives had. Mostly for Nigel Farage, I dont think we saw his best side and thats down to the media but a genuine guy nevertheless, who's approach to policy-making has matured considerably.
Finally for David Cameron who, whilst leaving and passing the baton will lead and leave a Conservative party with its knives drawn and stabbing everyone in their own party to use any leverage they can get.
I also feel sorry for myself as I voted for the party which won but, as Nigel said, was the least worst option, not outstanding as I would have hoped.
I hoped DC is a bit humbled by the outcome - we need a steady hand but not arrogance and all of us need him to govern for everyone if the Cons are to win again. Boris may be the rabbit but he can only do so much.
Now for the quiet time.

 

[bewsher500]

Nick Clegg because he is a man with moral aspirations and thought others would recognise it. .

he has no place in modern politics then!